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On 19/05/2021 at 12:28, Hitcher said:

On the character point i'm not convinced with Smith. How often over the last few seasons has his form dipped when we are playing badly as a team. Yes sure it suits all players to be surrounded by players also playing well but bar his breakthough season in league one he's never seemed to be in better form than the rest of the defence. 

I'm probably judging him harshly knowing how good he can be but sometimes i want that force of character that drags other players upwards. In comparison an in form legge has done that at points over the last few seasons but i don't see Smith being the catalyst who can do the same.

Said this many times 

Smith is an average player , at best imo, and plays well when he has a dominant other CB playing with him 

Don't know the answer but what is the win ratio with him in the side, I suspect not good 😐

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The sentiment for any of the lads released (with Pope as the obvious exception) continues to baffle me. They were a mix of over-the-hill fourth division cloggers and Macc Town reserves. 

3 wins in 25 league games (one a freak result at Bolton, and the other two against the sides who eventually went down into non-league). If that's not justification for a clear out, I don't know what is.

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1 hour ago, jjvale_03 said:

The sentiment for any of the lads released (with Pope as the obvious exception) continues to baffle me. They were a mix of over-the-hill fourth division cloggers and Macc Town reserves. 

3 wins in 25 league games (one a freak result at Bolton, and the other two against the sides who eventually went down into non-league). If that's not justification for a clear out, I don't know what is.

I think Guitar Ray made a good point on another thread.

We could easily have released, say, 12 out of the 15 and nobody would have batted an eyelid.

But we released all 15 and suddenly that's become unacceptable.

So is it a question of degrees? In my opinion it's more an sentimental reaction to certain individuals leaving than any issue with having a clearout per se. But I'm not going to be too hard on people who are sad about that.

 

 

Edited by Santa
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I think you're right. If the 3 of Pope, Brown and Brisley had been Whitehead, Robinson and Amoo, nobody would be questioning the decision at all.

I think Guitar Ray made a good point on another thread.
We could easily have released, say, 12 out of the 15 and nobody would have batted an eyelid.
But we released all 15 and suddenly that's become unacceptable.
So is it a question of degrees? In my opinion it's more an sentimental reaction to certain individuals leaving than any issue with having a clearout per se. But I'm not going to be too hard on people who are sad about that.
 
 

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I still think it is a massive gamble. Historically a certain percentage of signings don't work out, for any number of reasons. Once the transfer window is shut we have to last until January with the squad we have when it does or bring in free agents who obviously won't be as fit. Particularly in the case of goalkeepers, remember what happened to Marc Goodlad, Ryan Boot and Joe Anyon. Our season with 9 goalkeepers was a lesson in what happens when you don't have a steady goalkeeper. Defence have to have confidence in the keeper, won't help that some of them are new too. We may get lucky or it may blow up in spectacular style. 

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1 hour ago, Rampant Zebra said:

I still think it is a massive gamble. Historically a certain percentage of signings don't work out, for any number of reasons. Once the transfer window is shut we have to last until January with the squad we have when it does or bring in free agents who obviously won't be as fit. Particularly in the case of goalkeepers, remember what happened to Marc Goodlad, Ryan Boot and Joe Anyon. Our season with 9 goalkeepers was a lesson in what happens when you don't have a steady goalkeeper. Defence have to have confidence in the keeper, won't help that some of them are new too. We may get lucky or it may blow up in spectacular style. 

There's obvious risks. There's also an obvious risk to our league status if we'd have kept hold of more of the 4th division cloggers and Macc Town reserves. The downside of the 'gamble' is relegation out of the EFL - a feat almost achieved on more than one occasion by the group of players we've just released - but the upside is far greater. 

The goalkeeper example is an interesting one. There were some absolute shockers in that bunch but a couple have ended up carving out decent careers for themselves, most notably Kelle Roos (at a far bigger club than Vale, by the way). So maybe it was the chaos surrounding the club at that time rather than the ability of the players that made it a revolving door of terrible goalkeepers.. Not something the current crop could be excused for given the club is the most stable it's been in three decades. 

Lastly, 'we may get lucky'... nope. Carol has spent a decent chunk of money to build a football structure to give us the best possible chance of success. It remains to be seen whether the right people were employed in those key roles but if we what we hear about the way the DoF, data analytics and first team manager/coaches are working together to map out areas of weakness in the squad and possible transfer targets is genuine, it'll be less luck than judgement if we get it right this summer, and next January and so on. 

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How many of the new signed players need to actually be a hit? Its not that many. We have a fantastic core of players left (not transfer listed) all who could play or have the potential to play in L1.

We need a GK,CB,LB,CM, LW/ST  so thats only 5/6 players to come in and hit the ground running out of maybe 10-12 signings as other players are going to be squad/development players..

50/50 strike rate on signings and I like our chances given we are no longer relying on Macc and Sproson.

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2 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

We may get lucky or it may blow up in spectacular style. 

 

2 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

We may get lucky 

There's the rub with you. You don't think it will work, even though he's done it before and gone up twice in a row, and if it does work it'll be as a result of just pure luck rather than his ability and experience. Despite turning around a team of relegation bound dossers into winning 8 out of 9, you're prejudiced against him before he even makes his first signing, even before the second leg of the playoffs have been played. Technically this season isn't even finished yet and people are irrationally losing the plot that 10 new signings haven't been announced. In the third week of May. When contracts run for another 5 weeks. 

 

 

 

Edited by Doha
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7 hours ago, KEV.WILLIE said:

Said this many times 

Smith is an average player , at best imo, and plays well when he has a dominant other CB playing with him 

Don't know the answer but what is the win ratio with him in the side, I suspect not good 😐

This is what I have being saying all along 214 appearances for the Vale since 2016 2017 season I'd like know how many of them have being defeats draws and wins .

Is contract runs out in 2022 so lets see if he can have a successful season I'd like see us bring in two new centre halfs to aid Legge and Smith just be back up,because ok he can cover a few positions and at times be very good but come on we are in league two if he was that good we be challenging the play offs every season not just the one last season which finished prematurely and if even I'm sure our good run coincided with Brisley coming in at some point (surprising that ain't it as it was Brisley he come in this season and was terrific in a 3 of which Legge and Brisley led by example and were superb in the backbone of the team when relegation was deserved certainty in my opinion ).

Anyway we move on let's hope the players brought in have the hunger required to get the Vale not just up and out of this league but up to the championship minimum 

UTV 

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