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21 minutes ago, Gallifreyan Valiant said:

This has been the worst few seasons of my entire time as a Vale fan (37 years old). Its been horrible. These players have proved they are not capable.

Galli, I’d agree with your comment, but surely you’re forgetting about last season.?

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I'm struggling to fathom any doom mongers already before a signing has even been made. Talk of goalkeeping issues, people crying buckets over losing their heroes.  We move on and start afres

There's the rub with you. You don't think it will work, even though he's done it before and gone up twice in a row, and if it does work it'll be as a result of just pure luck rather than his ability a

You need a break from Vale. Log off and enjoy your summer instead of getting yourself wound up!

Posted (edited)

Can understand the sentiment but we have three local lads likely to start next year, plus a very popular player in Worrall. If they win games we'll quickly grow attached.

We are entrenched in one of the top 3/4 worst periods in the club's history (possibly the worst 20 year spell post-war) and our fanbase isn't getting any bigger or younger as Stoke hoovered up an entire generation from 2008-2018. Brave and drastic measures were needed.

Edited by Joe B
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Its a gamble. But I agree with others on here. Its probably the mandate DC wanted in order to come here, and so far I'm very glad he did.

Given that (bar a few exceptions such as Brown) the best platers have been kept. Which of the retained players could become a vale legend? In my mind there is a narrow window to becoming a legend, you have to be not quite good enough to be pinched by another club, and also a bit older... So perhaps instead of legends we should just be looking for that brilliant squad that gets us promotion.

Ainsworth would have been a legend but he only stayed for a year. Ian Taylor, similarly small amount of time. Rather than hoping for legends lets get some fresh young talent in here that we can polish whilst they fire us up the league. Hopefully we can sell on the odd gem here and there like we used to do when we were good.

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1 minute ago, manc_vale said:

Its a gamble. But I agree with others on here. Its probably the mandate DC wanted in order to come here, and so far I'm very glad he did.

Given that (bar a few exceptions such as Brown) the best platers have been kept. Which of the retained players could become a vale legend? In my mind there is a narrow window to becoming a legend, you have to be not quite good enough to be pinched by another club, and also a bit older... So perhaps instead of legends we should just be looking for that brilliant squad that gets us promotion.

Ainsworth would have been a legend but he only stayed for a year. Ian Taylor, similarly small amount of time. Rather than hoping for legends lets get some fresh young talent in here that we can polish whilst they fire us up the league. Hopefully we can sell on the odd gem here and there like we used to do when we were good.

I think Brown was the only player who, if retained, would start more than 30 games next year. The rebuilding job hasn't changed; we've just got to source a first-choice keeper too.

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I think Pope is an interesting one. We’ve relied on him for a couple of seasons past his best and probably put replacing him on the back burner for a bit too long because of his (deserved) legend status. I also think that’s held back the likes of Conlon and Smith in the “local hero” team leader roles. The latter two have to step up to the plate now in that role and we need to unearth a decent young goal scorer... who’s to say Devante won’t step up to that plate with an improved first touch. There’s a few gone who’ve been honest pros at this level but we need to be ambitious for better and there are characters are already at the club who’ll step out of the shadows now.

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18 hours ago, johnjeffersfanclub said:

I'll grant this is an odd POV, but I want to see if anyone feels the same. 

I'm not into aggro or slanging matches, do please keep it civil.

Letting so many go has left me feeling a bit disconnected from a squad that I really believed in only a year ago. There's something about this huge turnover of players that has robbed me of the enthusiasm I expected. 

Maybe it's the Brown call. Or allowing Manny to go. And Pope. Perhaps I don't trust Flitcroft. Heaven knows.

I know what you’re saying, I felt the same when Page and the whole squad were culled a few years back. 

However that cull had players in their prime such as Pope, cut loose to save money. That’s not the case here. 

However the only ones I will miss are Brown, Monty and Pope for nostalgia only. If I am being honest with myself, none of the three were likely to give us their best ever seasons next year. 
 

If you want to see has been old Vale players, get down to Hanley Town where you can see the likes of Dodds and Dickinson pit their wits against gas fitters and PE teachers. 

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18 hours ago, johnjeffersfanclub said:

I'll grant this is an odd POV, but I want to see if anyone feels the same. 

I'm not into aggro or slanging matches, do please keep it civil.

Letting so many go has left me feeling a bit disconnected from a squad that I really believed in only a year ago. There's something about this huge turnover of players that has robbed me of the enthusiasm I expected. 

Maybe it's the Brown call. Or allowing Manny to go. And Pope. Perhaps I don't trust Flitcroft. Heaven knows.

I have much empathy with you but at the end of the day it depends on who Vale sign and how the team performs from now on.

Some of the players who were let go were not good enough for Lge 2 and needed to go but some, Brown, Pope, Montano and Joyce IMHO were good Lge 2 footballers and would have helped to provide the nucleus of a good team, which together with 5-6 quality additions, would have formed a very competitive, promotion chasing  Lge 2 team next season. Whereas now Vale will have so many new players that the first job will be to see who gels with who etc.

It doesn't bode well when in the video about the retained list DC talks about fans "Being patient and trust the process", I would have thought the best released players are signed quickly, particularly goal scorers,  so I want to see some signings quickly rather than fish in the pool no club wants. Also in the same video, DC says, "My gut instinct tells me it was the right time to make wholesale changes", I would have thought such an important decision was taken with a little more thought than "Gut instinct".

It's been suggested that Flitroft el al are using some type of metric system to identify suitable players, perhaps other clubs have used similar systems and had success but Vale have to get the recruitment right this summer as we all know it's all to easy to fall into a relegation battle, the Bruno experiment meant relegation from Lge 1 another failed experiment would be much worse.

I hope DF/DC et al get the recruitment right, sign a 20+/season goal scorer, strengthen the spine and a left back and Vale should be good to go, I hope carol continues to have deep pockets. I don't want to be hearing the word "patience" in Nov/Dec 2021.

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I doubt we will be signing any ready made 20 goal striker DC already thinks he has one with Rodney. I'm not sure what to expect but it was definitely time to move the old guard on whether it's going work we can only wait and see

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, dishydave said:

I doubt we will be signing any ready made 20 goal striker DC already thinks he has one with Rodney. I'm not sure what to expect but it was definitely time to move the old guard on whether it's going work we can only wait and see

I don't think we need to sign a 20 goal striker. In my opinion we need a striker who can be a foil for Rodney and lead the line plus a midfield/striker who can play in between the lines dribbling at defenses with the ability to play passes in behind for Rodney. If we do that and Rodney stays fit there is no doubt in my mind he is a 20+ goal season player next season. My budget would be spent on a LW who can create and score goals and a very technical AM who can get on the ball and make us play then go from there for the striker partner.

I'm expecting us to be a very different possession based team next year which suits having as player like Rodney as the 9.

Edited by MBE
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Posted (edited)
On 16/05/2021 at 23:13, johnjeffersfanclub said:

I'll grant this is an odd POV, but I want to see if anyone feels the same. 

I'm not into aggro or slanging matches, do please keep it civil.

Letting so many go has left me feeling a bit disconnected from a squad that I really believed in only a year ago. There's something about this huge turnover of players that has robbed me of the enthusiasm I expected. 

Maybe it's the Brown call. Or allowing Manny to go. And Pope. Perhaps I don't trust Flitcroft. Heaven knows.

Theres going be a huge turnover of players so that could go either way they gel everything is positive ,winning games ,momentum and everyone looking forwards to games or the other way is you have turned over too many players and they the players might be good individual players, but not good in a team especially when falling behind in games that tells me more about the character of them than when they are 3 up and coasting to victory it's when you fall behind at home and the fans are demanding a response ,that's when you know the recruitment is right  if they equalise and go on  to win the game 

As another poster rightly pointed out some players have being here for years ,they are the same players who are ever present in the many losing games we had last season I think it was 49 competitive games  lost 22 of them so I am hoping the incoming players can push them into squad players not just picked because they are professional I'm professional at work but I am not a good footballer and lers face it after 4 off the past 5 seasons of generally averageness why shouldn't the support demand extra special because when I rock up at Vale park I want see the support loving the high energy ,very passionate players (whole not a few as we cannot carry passengers )going into every game like it's the FA cup final not just turning up when they feel like it and respecting the last home game (especially as its the one generally where awards night is after and for years now is totally a dead rubber but if I am going pay 23 quid get in which I will if we are deserving of it i want see the same application first game as last as to me that's totally disrespectful to those who have worked all week pay come watch it and what if you have prioritised that 23 quid over say schoolwear for your kids because you earn a pittance etc Responsibility at all times for 90 mins every game of season)

UTV.

Edited by Breadwinner
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Most of the teams in our league are going to have much changed squads,so we won't be on our own in that respect. As well as all the other attributes we will need from players there is also value for money. We can't sign players on big money to play just a handful of games.

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For those who're interested, here is an excellent piece from our local rag on how Cambridge managed to build a promotion winning team for the first time in 19 years.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-cambridge-united-secured-promotion-20617323

The thing that stood out for me was how Bonner said he would always put character before ability; not, of course, that he wouldn't sign technically good players but that he needed mental strength in the team before anything else. It clearly worked. Co-incidentally, I caught Sir Alex's interview on Sky today where he said that after his first game as manager when he lost 5-2 he went from thinking it would be easy to realising that if he didn't get some mental toughness into his players, they were going nowhere. The rest, of course, is history.

After this season, it's no surprise that the Vale have released so many players who, with some honourable exceptions, have shown all too little resilience, consistency and sheer bloody-mindedness throughout their time at the club. We have had little leadership for most of the season, on and off the pitch, and that has been at the heart of our problems, much of it stemming from poor recruitment. Our lack of drive, determination and a winning mentality meant that we were more than ready for a clear-out, despite the technical merits of the players.

DC and DF have their work cut out over the next few weeks but my guess is we can look forward to a different calibre of player. One thing that we should be looking for is not just the competency of individual players - tempting though that is - but their mentality, track record and ability to work in a team, the other characteristics that Cambridge attribute their success to. It's going to be an interesting next month or so.

Let's hope for a good few weeks bringing players in that can really make a difference.

 

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I feel the players having to apologise to Carol part way through the Askey departure, has something to do with why some, whom might have otherwise been offered a contract, have now departed the fold.

Trust in the leadership.

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Posted (edited)

I think we never replaced Anthony Griffith as derided as he was at times for what he lacked in finesse.

Edited by Valiant62
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6 hours ago, Valiant62 said:

I think we never replaced Anthony Griffith as derided as he was at times for what he lacked in finesse.

We had Grant for a couple of seasons. Morsy played that holding role and was a better footballer as well.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, CambridgeDon said:

For those who're interested, here is an excellent piece from our local rag on how Cambridge managed to build a promotion winning team for the first time in 19 years.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-cambridge-united-secured-promotion-20617323

The thing that stood out for me was how Bonner said he would always put character before ability; not, of course, that he wouldn't sign technically good players but that he needed mental strength in the team before anything else. It clearly worked. Co-incidentally, I caught Sir Alex's interview on Sky today where he said that after his first game as manager when he lost 5-2 he went from thinking it would be easy to realising that if he didn't get some mental toughness into his players, they were going nowhere. The rest, of course, is history.

After this season, it's no surprise that the Vale have released so many players who, with some honourable exceptions, have shown all too little resilience, consistency and sheer bloody-mindedness throughout their time at the club. We have had little leadership for most of the season, on and off the pitch, and that has been at the heart of our problems, much of it stemming from poor recruitment. Our lack of drive, determination and a winning mentality meant that we were more than ready for a clear-out, despite the technical merits of the players.

DC and DF have their work cut out over the next few weeks but my guess is we can look forward to a different calibre of player. One thing that we should be looking for is not just the competency of individual players - tempting though that is - but their mentality, track record and ability to work in a team, the other characteristics that Cambridge attribute their success to. It's going to be an interesting next month or so.

Let's hope for a good few weeks bringing players in that can really make a difference.

 

Well said. Some sports put 'character' as the primary attribute they evaluate; you can coach players up but you can't instill crucial elements like resilience, leadership, determination etc. These lads set the tone in training, dig deep in tricky spells, ensure standards are rigorous.

I watched a documentary on how an NFL team assessed players ahead of the NFL Draft and they had a former Marine commander doing character interviews with the players, to ensure they fit the culture.

Our team seemed nice enough but how many real 'leaders' (to use a cliche) were there? Legge, Conlon, maybe Gibbons? Smith in an understated way? How many horrible players who would win a game at any cost?

I was really reassured by Garlick's description of the war room that DC, Flitters, and the recruitment analyst are using for their signings. 'Character' was mentioned. 11 lean, mean, sh!thouse lads please.

Edited by Joe B
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