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2 hours ago, tisdeano said:

Joe , there is nothing wrong with your view , except DC is paid by Carol to manage the team, DC has decided he wants a wage cap, that’s very simply the end of the matter emoji2369.png

Wage budget for the squad as a whole yes. Individual wage cap no. We have to run on a budget that we can afford but we also have to be competitive.Heres my view :

Lets say Wilson, Proctor, Conlon, Smith are the higher earners at £1800 Are we saying that they would be unhappy if we say signed ' Telford ' on £ 2300 ? Why 

I would expect Garrity, Jones, Gibbons to be on lets say £1300. Are they going to be ' unhappy ' that the others are on more money ? Will Garrity be demanding more money ? He is joint leading goal scorer. He has probably played more minutes than Wilson and Proctor combined.

I understand age, experience, position etc play a part in negotiated salaries but i believe the club must have a budget and not exceed it but it sort of strangleholds us if we insist on an individual player cap.

Dont expect us to be taking massive gambles but we would need to be extremely lucky to achieve the perfectly balances squad to achieve promotion. I also dont expect us to achieve promotion after the first attempt at DC putting his squad together. We do look to have a stronger squad of 20 players but maybe not one of the better first 11 than others.

Injuries, yes completely understand we have been unlucky but in Wilson and Proctor we were taking a massive gamble, based on their playing history. It has also been proved that we had very little back uo for one of them, let alone two.

Dont forget also that this signing may also be the difference in ALL the squad players achieving add on bonus's, goals, wins, top seven etc etc. Balance the budget out between the whole squad, which i am sure we do but we shouldnt have a ceiling for an individual player, within reason and within the first team budget.

DC and Flitters decided on this wage cap but it doesnt necessarily say it is the correct way.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Is our squad "full" now?

ie have we vacant positions that could be filled by free agents?

v

Squad limits

Managers in Leagues One and Two will be confined to using 22 professional players, not counting goalkeepers or those aged under 21 (born after January 1, 2000).

                        Count                        Don’t Count

1                      Gibbons                     Holy(goalkeeper)

2                      Smith                         Covolan(goalkeeper)

3                      Martin                       Stone(goalkeeper)

4                      Hall                            Robinson(under 22 on 1 January 2021)

5                      Jones                         Edmonson(under 22 on 1 January 2021)

6                      Benning                     Harratt(under 22 on 1 January 2021)

7                      Walker

8                      Pett

9                      Worrall

10                   Garrity

11                   Charsley

12                   Conlon

13                   Taylor

14                   Hussey

15                   Wilson

16                   Proctor

17                   Cooper

18                   Hurst

19                   Amoo

So by my reckoning we have 3 spare places that we could potentially fill with players out of contract as of the 31 January 2022.

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3 minutes ago, Sandyford_Lion said:

Wage budget for the squad as a whole yes. Individual wage cap no. We have to run on a budget that we can afford but we also have to be competitive.Heres my view :

Lets say Wilson, Proctor, Conlon, Smith are the higher earners at £1800 Are we saying that they would be unhappy if we say signed ' Telford ' on £ 2300 ? Why 

I would expect Garrity, Jones, Gibbons to be on lets say £1300. Are they going to be ' unhappy ' that the others are on more money ? Will Garrity be demanding more money ? He is joint leading goal scorer. He has probably played more minutes than Wilson and Proctor combined.

I understand age, experience, position etc play a part in negotiated salaries but i believe the club must have a budget and not exceed it but it sort of strangleholds us if we insist on an individual player cap.

Dont expect us to be taking massive gambles but we would need to be extremely lucky to achieve the perfectly balances squad to achieve promotion. I also dont expect us to achieve promotion after the first attempt at DC putting his squad together. We do look to have a stronger squad of 20 players but maybe not one of the better first 11 than others.

Injuries, yes completely understand we have been unlucky but in Wilson and Proctor we were taking a massive gamble, based on their playing history. It has also been proved that we had very little back uo for one of them, let alone two.

Dont forget also that this signing may also be the difference in ALL the squad players achieving add on bonus's, goals, wins, top seven etc etc. Balance the budget out between the whole squad, which i am sure we do but we shouldnt have a ceiling for an individual player, within reason and within the first team budget.

DC and Flitters decided on this wage cap but it doesnt necessarily say it is the correct way.

 

 

 

Spot on. Make the point far better than me.

We know that some players earn £1850, and some earn £1000. That is seemingly accepted as normal and standard.

However, above £1850? Ludicrous! Squad harmony! The finances! 

It's a restriction we chose to place on ourself in a cheaper summer market with no evidence about how the squad will perform, and now treat as sacred. I hope we don't regret it.

Edited by Joe B

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Wage budget for the squad as a whole yes. Individual wage cap no. We have to run on a budget that we can afford but we also have to be competitive.Heres my view :
Lets say Wilson, Proctor, Conlon, Smith are the higher earners at £1800 Are we saying that they would be unhappy if we say signed ' Telford ' on £ 2300 ? Why 
I would expect Garrity, Jones, Gibbons to be on lets say £1300. Are they going to be ' unhappy ' that the others are on more money ? Will Garrity be demanding more money ? He is joint leading goal scorer. He has probably played more minutes than Wilson and Proctor combined.
I understand age, experience, position etc play a part in negotiated salaries but i believe the club must have a budget and not exceed it but it sort of strangleholds us if we insist on an individual player cap.
Dont expect us to be taking massive gambles but we would need to be extremely lucky to achieve the perfectly balances squad to achieve promotion. I also dont expect us to achieve promotion after the first attempt at DC putting his squad together. We do look to have a stronger squad of 20 players but maybe not one of the better first 11 than others.
Injuries, yes completely understand we have been unlucky but in Wilson and Proctor we were taking a massive gamble, based on their playing history. It has also been proved that we had very little back uo for one of them, let alone two.
Dont forget also that this signing may also be the difference in ALL the squad players achieving add on bonus's, goals, wins, top seven etc etc. Balance the budget out between the whole squad, which i am sure we do but we shouldnt have a ceiling for an individual player, within reason and within the first team budget.
DC and Flitters decided on this wage cap but it doesnt necessarily say it is the correct way.
 
 
 

I’m not disagreeing , I’m saying they are the management team it’s 100% their decision

we can argue the toss all day long it won’t change the fact we have decided to go down the wage cap route, with large incentives based on performance

I’m not saying it’s the right or wrong way, it’s the way our management team have decided to go

Four fees paid in a season , in the main it’s positive this year, no matter how pessimistic and negative some want view it
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Spot on. Make the point far better than me.
We know that some players earn £1850, and some earn £1000. That is seemingly accepted as normal and standard.
However, above £1850? Ludicrous! Squad harmony! The finances! 
It's a restriction we chose to place on ourself in a cheaper summer market with no evidence about how the squad will perform, and now treat as sacred. I hope we don't regret it.

We may or may not regret it, we are barely passed midway through the season

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21 minutes ago, Joe B said:

 

We know that some players earn £1850, and some earn £1000. That is seemingly accepted as normal and standard.

However, above £1850? Ludicrous! Squad harmony! The finances! 

You know as well as I that this is a bit silly and isn’t the argument that anyone is making.

The top number isn’t the issue… if it can be £2,000 why not £2,500, why not £3,000, f*ck it… free for all!

The point is that the decision has been made based on having a set budget which has been communicated to the players and they have bought into that.

Breaking that for an individual half way through the season, which is where this all started, means throwing away everything they have communicated to the players and the whole approach.

If at the start of the season they want to up that number and rebalance, then they will… and stick to it through the season.

This is all getting a bit daft… we have a wage structure. Some agree with it, some don’t… asking the management team to break their own view on that isn’t trusting the process. Be that a joke phrase or not… there have been some major wobbles recently!

Edited by Iron Curtain
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You know as well as I that this is a bit silly and isn’t the argument that anyone is making.
The top number isn’t the issue… if it can be £2,000 why not £2,500, why not £3,000, f*ck it… free for all!
The point is that the decision has been made based on having a set budget which has been communicated to the players and they have bought into that.
Breaking that for an individual half way through the season, which is where this all started, means throwing away everything they have communicated to the players and the whole approach.
If at the start of the season they want to up that number and rebalance, then they will… and stick to it through the season.
This is all getting a bit daft… we have a wage structure. Some agree with it, some don’t… asking the management team to break their own view on that isn’t trusting the process. Be that a joke phrase or not… there have been some major wobbles recently!

Spot on

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14 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

You know as well as I that this is a bit silly and isn’t the argument that anyone is making.

The top number isn’t the issue… if it can be £2,000 why not £2,500, why not £3,000, f*ck it… free for all!

The point is that the decision has been made based on having a set budget which has been communicated to the players and they have bought into that.

Breaking that for an individual half way through the season, which is where this all started, means throwing away everything they have communicated to the players and the whole approach.

If at the start of the season they want to up that number and rebalance, then they will… and stick to it through the season.

This is all getting a bit daft… we have a wage structure. Some agree with it, some don’t… asking the management team to break their own view on that isn’t trusting the process. Be that a joke phrase or not… there have been some major wobbles recently!

Agreed.  From memory wasn’t Pope’s new deal causing disharmony cited as one of the reasons the wheels came off for a while during the promotion season when we ended up stumbling over the line? 

Edited by Bald Eagle
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They get paid a king’s ransom to kick a piece of leather around on some grass. The lowest paid is on a king’s ransom and it would be shameful to complain.

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3 minutes ago, 1 said:

They get paid a king’s ransom to kick a piece of leather around on some grass. The lowest paid is on a king’s ransom and it would be shameful to complain.

Doubt Hurst could afford to pay any ransom money demanded by whoever would kidnap the future King Charles

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19 minutes ago, 1 said:

They get paid a king’s ransom to kick a piece of leather around on some grass. The lowest paid is on a king’s ransom and it would be shameful to complain.

Kings ransom? I don’t think so. It’s all relative isn’t it when you look at the profession as a whole and the length of the career. No one playing a whole career in league 2 is going to be retiring at the end of it. 

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5 hours ago, Joe B said:

Yeah I've made it clear I don't massively agree with a 'carefully implemented wage structure' as long as the overall budget is adhered to, so that isn't a problem in my view. A lot of clubs are quite successful without one. We made a choice to utilise one and are seemingly beholden to the magic 1850 figure, a completely arbitrary figure which restricts us from signing a sub-section of good footballers.

Continuing this debate is fairly pointless. The "arbitrary" figure has, presumably, been decided by the owners and their management team as one which suits the budget of the club. This levelling of wages ensures there are no "superstars" on substantially higher wages, and must promote a more harmonious team spirit? This ethos has been sold to the squad already here, and to any newcomers and, along with the "no bonuses unless we are successful" has clearly been accepted by all. Having a single player breaching this must be a risk to that harmony?

Yes - I know they're grown men...they are grown men who have been told what the wage structure is and it's a principle we should adhere to regardless of whether it restricts the players available to bring in. For what it's worth, my opinion is that a player on £4k / week should be scoring goals, regularly, at L1 level, not in L2. Someone on £4k in our League is a risk and potential burden - as someone has pointed out, the top scorers in our League are enjoying unusual high-yield seasons...as we saw last season with Mullins. And as we've seen with Robinson and McKirdy scoring goals somewhere else is no guarantee of success with the Vale.

I'm happy with our recruitment, at the moment - Hussey and Hall have already bedded in and shown they can be a benefit to us.  The 2 young lads up front have already had regular game time and may well start scoring with an improved midfield behind them? The keeper...coming to us from L1...kept a clean sheet on his debut - yes, he had his moments...but he hasn't played since October, so ought to be a bit steadier tonight...hopefully? 

It's all a gamble even at the top levels, and a player's wage is no guarantee of success - so I'm ok with a sensible salary structure.

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Looking at it from a business perspective you get an extra 300k a season in league 1 so why would you sign 1 player on 250 - 300k a year who may or may not help you get there. Mansfield, Tranmere and Salford have spent millions that they do not have trying to get out of this league. We are trying to do it the right way and it will probably take time

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3 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Could this £1,850 cap be a ploy by Flitters to stop agents thinking they can try and get more for the player?

 

The £1850 figure, which from memory was given by DC in an interview, may be completely spurious for all we know.  Either way, what everyone seems to forget is that although we may have this cap in place he also stated there’s a bias towards bonus incentives. The £1850, or whatever, may be significantly more if we’re top 7, winning games, scoring goals and keeping clean sheets.  The capped figure can’t be taken in isolation, it’s part of an overall package.  It’s impossible to compare our salary with any rival club, who could potentially offer a higher basic wage yet lower bonuses.  Who knows?

Whatever we pay we’ve got some decent players on the books.

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On 01/02/2022 at 19:28, dishydave said:

Looking at it from a business perspective you get an extra 300k a season in league 1 so why would you sign 1 player on 250 - 300k a year who may or may not help you get there. Mansfield, Tranmere and Salford have spent millions that they do not have trying to get out of this league. We are trying to do it the right way and it will probably take time

I see Sunderland have signed Jermain Defoe on £6,000 a week.They are still behind three other clubs in League One though, who have bigger wage budgets. Sheff Wed are top of the list on £10m,Ipswich £9.4m and Wigan £6.2m.

Chicken feed compared to the PL though who have just spent £295m in the January transfer window.Top clubs in Germany,Italy,Spain and France spent £315m between them.

 

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