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PFA and squad limits


robf
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Link - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56666478

I don't usually agree with much the PFA moans about but on this occasion I think they may have a case. I do think that a 25 limit across the three divisions is fairer than 20 for Leagues 1 and 2 especially, as the PFA say, a small squad could be causing injuries through players playing more games and perhaps being rushed back into action.

 

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Personally I think they should allow somewhere between 2 and 5 players up to 25 who have been at a club from 20, in addition to 20 over age players. That would encourage youth development and give an incentive to give younger players time to develop.

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Link - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56666478
I don't usually agree with much the PFA moans about but on this occasion I think they may have a case. I do think that a 25 limit across the three divisions is fairer than 20 for Leagues 1 and 2 especially, as the PFA say, a small squad could be causing injuries through players playing more games and perhaps being rushed back into action.
 
Let's not pretend that the PFAs real concern is their members getting injured. It's all about, as usual, money in their members back pockets. I'm not against that at all, but can't stand false argument when it's abundantly clear what it's really about

As an aside, whatever happened to the days when players actually could manage 46 games a season?
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I do think 20 man squads won't work with the current fixtures however something has to give and the players union need to concede some ground somewhere . They won the case against salary caps but if they carry on I think there will a considerable number of clubs who are going to be in a very very tight financial position, either give players significant reduce terms and/or squads will be filled with kids after a strong 14/15 players. 

The bottom line generally speaking is the EFL is unsustainable with wages post covid - it was on life support pre covid. The economy Is going to take time to recover, club owners will not be able to support the club as much (unless you're owner is in tech), plus lots of fans will be in a very different financial situation than pre covid to support the club too.

PFA need to step in to the real world and understand the real issues putting forward solutions to help clubs rather than create blocking points. 

Personally I think a mix of squad limits, income vs squad wage ratios limits and reduced fixtures are the way forward before there are more cases like Bury.

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Why cant all the EFL leagues have a 25 player limit like the Prem, it does not mean they have to have 25 players, but just enough that they think sensible and/or afford. Clubs then set pay and numbers that they can afford within a budget. Obviously pay levels will be lower next season for most clubs.

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6 hours ago, JRC said:

Personally I think they should allow somewhere between 2 and 5 players up to 25 who have been at a club from 20, in addition to 20 over age players. That would encourage youth development and give an incentive to give younger players time to develop.

Yeah, why does James Gibbons (23 and a Port Vale academy graduate) not count as a young player but you can have as many 20 year old cast off from a Premier League academy as you want?

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Honestly, I don't understand how this is even legal under employment law?
Imagine any other business, only being allowed a certain number of people over a certain age. There would be lawsuits all over the place!
Ie. what if Tesco or Sainsburys said, each branch could only employ 10 people over 21, the rest had to be under 21. 
Surely a company, in this case a football club, should be able to employ whoever they see fit to fill a position, regardless of age etc.

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To cut squad sizes down is madness especially when you consider the amount of games we could play and the frequency of them too. I get that they could be trying to encourage more academy lads playing, but I think it’s a bad call to cut the number down. 

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On 08/04/2021 at 11:01, robf said:

Link - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56666478

I don't usually agree with much the PFA moans about but on this occasion I think they may have a case. I do think that a 25 limit across the three divisions is fairer than 20 for Leagues 1 and 2 especially, as the PFA say, a small squad could be causing injuries through players playing more games and perhaps being rushed back into action.

 

On 04/04/2021 at 13:02, Paul6754 said:

I don't agree with the EFL Squad Cap, if a club wants to only have 20 players registered that's up to them, similarly if a club wants 30 registered. What is the problem, why the restriction. I'm surprised the PFA haven't got involved as the cap potentially restricts opportunities for it's members, perhaps the PFA have done but I'm not aware of it.

I posted this on the "Who should we sign for next season" thread (or words to that effect). 

I fully agree with Danish Valiant when he says, "I don't understand how this is even legal under employment law?", too much "big brother" in a EFL Squad cap.

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7 hours ago, Doha said:

The business can employ anyone they want.

The football league is a private members club though and being admitted requires entry criteria. Nothing to do with employment law. 

Agreed.
But the reason the salary cap was deemed illegal, was because it put a limit over what players could make. And the PFA deemed, that if they tried it at court, it would be deemed unlawful. So when salary rules follows common law, why shouldn't age regulations?
The EFL might be a members only club, but they still have to abide by the law of the land. Imagine if the EFL VERY VERY VERY hypothetical, decided not to employ women, or people of color. I'm pretty sure that would be found unlawful as well. So why is it okay to discriminate on age? They are literally putting hundreds of people out of a job, out of a career. 

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1 hour ago, Danish Valiant said:

Agreed.
But the reason the salary cap was deemed illegal, was because it put a limit over what players could make. And the PFA deemed, that if they tried it at court, it would be deemed unlawful. So when salary rules follows common law, why shouldn't age regulations?
The EFL might be a members only club, but they still have to abide by the law of the land. Imagine if the EFL VERY VERY VERY hypothetical, decided not to employ women, or people of color. I'm pretty sure that would be found unlawful as well. So why is it okay to discriminate on age? They are literally putting hundreds of people out of a job, out of a career. 

That's an interesting point.  Ageism is supposedly illegal interms of employment if not pay.

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That's an interesting point.  Ageism is supposedly illegal interms of employment if not pay.
But it is a sporting competition. The number of players on the field is fixed. So the Prem fixed the squad at 25 Adult players, and an unlimited number of apprentices/learners since they don't all make the grade by the time they are 21 and all can't be guaranteed a job.

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4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
13 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:
That's an interesting point.  Ageism is supposedly illegal interms of employment if not pay.

But it is a sporting competition. The number of players on the field is fixed. So the Prem fixed the squad at 25 Adult players, and an unlimited number of apprentices/learners since they don't all make the grade by the time they are 21 and all can't be guaranteed a job.

But the difference is, that PL teams already have absolute hoards of U21/23s. Was it Chelsea, that a few years back loaned out 2 full teams, and still had competitive squads in all age groups? 
I get the idea of the salary cap and squad cap, but the squad cap is at most redundant without the salary cap.
The real cost cutting exercise was the salary cap, never the squad cap. So with the salary cap gone, so clubs can still spend way beyond their means, the squad cap just has no logic anymore. If a club wants to spend say 4 million on wages, why should the EFL control if they spend it on 20 or 30 players? The money will be spend either way, clubs like Salford, Bradford or Bolton, will still pay silly wages to get their man. And if clubs can only have 20 or 25 players in the squad, clubs will just pay even more to secure their man.
The squad cap turns the tables, from making it a clubs market, to a players/agents market.

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5 minutes ago, Danish Valiant said:

But the difference is, that PL teams already have absolute hoards of U21/23s. Was it Chelsea, that a few years back loaned out 2 full teams, and still had competitive squads in all age groups? 
I get the idea of the salary cap and squad cap, but the squad cap is at most redundant without the salary cap.
The real cost cutting exercise was the salary cap, never the squad cap. So with the salary cap gone, so clubs can still spend way beyond their means, the squad cap just has no logic anymore. If a club wants to spend say 4 million on wages, why should the EFL control if they spend it on 20 or 30 players? The money will be spend either way, clubs like Salford, Bradford or Bolton, will still pay silly wages to get their man. And if clubs can only have 20 or 25 players in the squad, clubs will just pay even more to secure their man.
The squad cap turns the tables, from making it a clubs market, to a players/agents market.

Some clubs don`t have 20 adult players,  the fewer players you have means that you can pay them higher wages within the allowed playing budget. If you pay say a star striker a massive amount there is less for the rest of the squad, depends whether the rest of the squad think he is worth it.

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4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Some clubs don`t have 20 adult players,  the fewer players you have means that you can pay them higher wages within the allowed playing budget. If you pay say a star striker a massive amount there is less for the rest of the squad, depends whether the rest of the squad think he is worth it.

Some may not have 22 but I doubt any club has less than 20. Without in season loans you wouldn't survive with less than 20.

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