Match Thread: Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[geoff1]

heres your team talk gaffer, " get off your arses and win!!!!!!!!!

[Breadwinner]

16 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Perhaps he should have said it the other way round? “I hope the players are hurting because that was poor but I’ll stick by them.”?

So putting 2 and 2 together the manager has to tell them they should be hurting so obviously they are not so that brings me to a conclusion or a question .

Why are you representing something you do not care about ?

You could have told us that before you put us through a season of woe with 17 defeats already and a cup defeat v Kings Lynn and me spending 260 quid on ifollow thinking you wanted win for us and the Vale .

That's all I'm getting from them after match comments I mean Askey was having tell them it's a privilege play for Port Vale ,Clarke saying it should hurt them and cause a reaction next game a reaction which rarely happens .

On the day before our next big game I'm coming to this conclusion these players have 13 games left to dismiss this horrible feeling that majority do not care if so i cannot wait for them to be out of work it will be deserved and i wouldnt wish that on anyone .

[Valiant62]

Personally, I think it’s a bunch of players who may not be worldbeaters but are better than their current form. That’s either lack of motivation or lack of confidence. The former is being overplayed and with respect to confidence, I don’t think Clarke’s media comments have helped. He also pleads the “legacy” thing re unbalanced squad and suboptimal fitness coaching which is loser mentality and contradicts his claims of taking personal responsibility. What he’s inherited is easily good enough to stay up which is sole priority at the moment. He needs to forget his self promotion / PR guff and help us get some results.

[JohnJames]

I know this is Stoke but perhaps the Vale players should watch this Marvellous team talk

https://fb.watch/45HhT-bCGx/

[Wrex]

1 hour ago, robf said:

Sorry if this has been posted before but I can't quite understand the manager's comments ahead of this one - https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hurting-darrell-clarkes-port-vale-5082253

He says "I have to stick with the players" and "I have to support my players". He then says of the Cheltenham game "There are no positives to take" and finishes with "I want to make sure the players are hurting."

I don't think anyone would disagree with the criticism but why say he will "support the players" and then say he wants to make sure they are "hurting"?

I think it's got to be one or the other hasn't it? Either he supports them or criticises them. I can't see how you can do both because one cancels the other out.

If his media remarks are confusing to people reading it in the papers I hope his communications in the team talks aren't as confusing.

A minor point in the grand scheme of things but mixed messages don't help at this stage do they?

It's a pretty common thing with big ego managers. You'll notice it when Mourinho or Allardyce are doing well then they take the credit but when things are going badly it's the players. 'we' in the good times and 'them' in the bad times.

It's understandable in a way because he's new to the club and none of them are 'his' players. I'm more worried about his previous press conferences though. When he first arrived was the time to build confidence.

After two points from five games, scrappy defensive tactics, changing the team every week and publicly criticising the players it's not really possible to start building the confidence up. The 'new manager bounce' ship has sadly sailed away.

He's right in that it's up to the players now to look within themselves and get the mentality and fighting spirit from within. It's still Clarke's job to pick the right team and tactics of course.

[robf]

19 minutes ago, Valiant62 said:

Personally, I think it’s a bunch of players who may not be worldbeaters but are better than their current form. That’s either lack of motivation or lack of confidence. The former is being overplayed and with respect to confidence, I don’t think Clarke’s media comments have helped. He also pleads the “legacy” thing re unbalanced squad and suboptimal fitness coaching which is loser mentality and contradicts his claims of taking personal responsibility. What he’s inherited is easily good enough to stay up which is sole priority at the moment. He needs to forget his self promotion / PR guff and help us get some results.

I would tend to agree with that @Valiant62 

I think the same bunch of players when confident were challenging in the top-half and now they are bereft of confidence they are struggling at the bottom. Yes, there are other factors - injuries, fitness, tactics and squad strength but I can't see what hammering them as not good enough is going to do right now. To my inexpert eye the play right now shows players scared to play an ambitious pass so they take the easy option, scared to take on a shot so they don't. 

I'm sure it's not an easy task to drag people's confidence back up - but surely one of the first and most obvious things to do is not publicly hammer them in every press conference. 

A win on Tuesday is the only thing that matters right now. Cheltenham has gone and is history. Talk about the balance of the squad, the quality of the squad is for another day. You almost want the manager to be saying - I'm not doing a press conference for this game as what I want to say to my players is private - and for him to tell his squad in private to express themselves, don't be afraid to shoot on sight, to show the viewing Vale fans their quality, to prove themselves again. 

[hamilboy]

You can have the the most secure house in the  neighbourhood but if you leave the backdoor wide open all the time you will get burgled its a simple as that.

[Birches Head Fred]

Some players need an arm around the shoulder, some need leaving quietly to get on with their job some will rant and rave in the dressing room whilst some need a ticket up their backside.
But constantly telling them all that they are neither fit enough or good enough cannot be helpful, be that from the manager and coaches or from the fans themselves.
Port Vale employed these players, maybe they were the only ones who wanted to sign, but sign they did.
When they cross that white line they need to believe that they are better than the player opposing them, that collectively they are a better team than our current position suggests and most importantly that the fans and manager/coaches are fully behind them.
In my humble opinion of course.

[dishydave]

So what your saying is he should of said something along the lines of.
Don't worry boys you weren't that bad it's not your fault those other boys are better, stronger and fitter than you and we know you tried your best so don't be upset everything is going to be ok.

[Birches Head Fred]

So what your saying is he should of said something along the lines of.
Don't worry boys you weren't that bad it's not your fault those other boys are better, stronger and fitter than you and we know you tried your best so don't be upset everything is going to be ok.

Something along those lines yes

[robf]

12 minutes ago, dishydave said:

So what your saying is he should of said something along the lines of.
Don't worry boys you weren't that bad it's not your fault those other boys are better, stronger and fitter than you and we know you tried your best so don't be upset everything is going to be ok.

Not at all. More along the lines of - "You're the players who put this club in play-off contention earlier this season. You're better than this. I realise your morale is low but I want you to think about that time earlier in the season and go out and play with no fear. I don't want you to worry about an ambitious pass going wrong or a long-range effort going wide. I want you to give 100%, to be confident in your ability and go and show the doubters that they are wrong."

It may or may not be true. They may still be rubbish but what's the point of knocking players when they are down? Where's that got us? Why not try to make poor players a bit better?

The window is shut, we can't replace them so we may as well give them some confidence and self-belief and hope it helps them pick up some form.  It's kidology. It doesn't mean they are necessarily good players but if telling them they are helps their self-belief then what's the harm?

Or we could just continue to slate them and accept relegation as their form and confidence gets even worse.

[Wrex]

It's like what Artell droves on about every week at Crewe. Bravery in terms of throwing yourself in front of a shot is great, but you also need bravery to show for the ball when the opposition is pressing and you need bravery to make the right pass rather than take the easy option.

Tell the creative players to be brave and take risks in the opposite half. You'll never score if you just sit behind the ball and hide behind opposition players because you don't want to be the one to risk losing possession.

[The man in the pub]

9 minutes ago, robf said:

Not at all. More along the lines of - "You're the players who put this club in play-off contention earlier this season. You're better than this. I realise your morale is low but I want you to think about that time earlier in the season and go out and play with no fear. I don't want you to worry about an ambitious pass going wrong or a long-range effort going wide. I want you to give 100%, to be confident in your ability and go and show the doubters that they are wrong."

It may or may not be true. They may still be rubbish but what's the point of knocking players when they are down? Where's that got us? Why not try to make poor players a bit better?

The window is shut, we can't replace them so we may as well give them some confidence and self-belief and hope it helps them pick up some form.  It's kidology. It doesn't mean they are necessarily good players but if telling them they are helps their self-belief then what's the harm?

Or we could just continue to slate them and accept relegation as their form and confidence gets even worse.

Sad to say we are where we are because of these players. Unfortunately it is these same players who will have to get us out of this mess. Fairplay to give them an earbending but Clarke has to get them playing better. Does telling them they are poor quality and will be gone in the Summer the way to do it ? 

[Fosse69]

The manager's job is to install belief in his team and to set them up to their best advantage in each game. No point in saying you could do it differently with different players, except to the board.

[Birches Head Fred]

Not at all. More along the lines of - "You're the players who put this club in play-off contention earlier this season. You're better than this. I realise your morale is low but I want you to think about that time earlier in the season and go out and play with no fear. I don't want you to worry about an ambitious pass going wrong or a long-range effort going wide. I want you to give 100%, to be confident in your ability and go and show the doubters that they are wrong."
It may or may not be true. They may still be rubbish but what's the point of knocking players when they are down? Where's that got us? Why not try to make poor players a bit better?
The window is shut, we can't replace them so we may as well give them some confidence and self-belief and hope it helps them pick up some form.  It's kidology. It doesn't mean they are necessarily good players but if telling them they are helps their self-belief then what's the harm?
Or we could just continue to slate them and accept relegation as their form and confidence gets even worse.

Spot on Rob.