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Wonderful Nurses Pay Rise


ELDERBEZZA

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3 hours ago, ginge said:

What about the extra money the nhs was supposed to get from brexit? Can't that go to a pay rise? 

I'm sure the MPs haven't had any pay rises recently?...  

I think any money promised would have been in 2016, I’m sure like myself no one really believed that figure, but in 2016 there weren’t any cases of Covid and even when there were, who’d have thought it would have had such a devastating effect on the world. We’ve borrowed more money for this than we did for two world wars. We finally paid off the debt of the Second World War in 2005. This will need to be recouped, so I’d be surprised if we’ll see any money spent on the NHS or other public sector jobs for sometime.

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16 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

I think any money promised would have been in 2016, I’m sure like myself no one really believed that figure, but in 2016 there weren’t any cases of Covid and even when there were, who’d have thought it would have had such a devastating effect on the world. We’ve borrowed more money for this than we did for two world wars. We finally paid off the debt of the Second World War in 2005. This will need to be recouped, so I’d be surprised if we’ll see any money spent on the NHS or other public sector jobs for sometime.

Can give Cummings a 40k pay rise though 

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56 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

I'm quite sure that these comments won't be popular with a lot of folk on here, but nevertheless, I shall try to put a slightly less emotive point of view: of course the nurses deserve a pay rise, and so too do every front-line worker who have kept the country ticking over in the most difficult circumstances any of us has experienced in our lifetimes. What  about doctors, hospital porters, hospital cleaners transport workers, shopworkers, care home staff, home care workers, refuge collectors, police, fire service personnel, teachers, delivery drivers etc, etc., the list could go on.  The vast majority of these workers will get little or no salary increases in the near future, but nurses are at least being given something, small as it is.

Continuing this hopefully objective argument, nurses, along with their NHS colleagues also have the benefit of rock-solid pension provision that many of the listed workers above (especially those in the private sector) don't get!  Also, newly qualified nurses have already received a 12% increase in salary, taking nurses' average salary to £34000 pa.

Finishing where I started, of course it's 'unfair' that nurses haven't been offered a bigger increase, but any increase is almost certainly more 'fair' than most will receive and definitely more fair than the millions of people who have struggled through the pandemic on furlough or been made redundant through no fault of their own.

My view on this is less about the quantum,,, Its more about how the government used and abused the NHS name to try and demonstrate that they "Cared"

They Milked the clap for Carers, they made sure to deflect any difficult question by refusing to answer and just thanking the heroes of the NHS was asked, They even kept repeating the phrase NHS test and Trace when its was privatised to Serco.

 As soon as its all started to die down, and people have started to forget what a truly awful job they did, they have thrown the "Heroes" to one side and given them a insulting rise.

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Just now, Iron Curtain said:

My view on this is less about the quantum,,, Its more about how the government used and abused the NHS name to try and demonstrate that they "Cared"

They Milked the clap for Carers, they made sure to deflect any difficult question by refusing to answer and just thanking the heroes of the NHS was asked, They even kept repeating the phrase NHS test and Trace when its was privatised to Serco.

 As soon as its all started to die down, and people have started to forget what a truly awful job they did, they have thrown the "Heroes" to one side and given them a insulting rise.

Absolutely!Watch what he does with the other "essential "services in the future🤔

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6 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

My view on this is less about the quantum,,, Its more about how the government used and abused the NHS name to try and demonstrate that they "Cared"

They Milked the clap for Carers, they made sure to deflect any difficult question by refusing to answer and just thanking the heroes of the NHS was asked, They even kept repeating the phrase NHS test and Trace when its was privatised to Serco.

 As soon as its all started to die down, and people have started to forget what a truly awful job they did, they have thrown the "Heroes" to one side and given them a insulting rise.

Well that's one view, but rather more emotive and less objective than mine I think.

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52 minutes ago, ginge said:

Can give Cummings a 40k pay rise though 

Firstly, can I say I can’t stand Cummings another smarmy snake, that seems to be a requisite qualification for most politicians. That is correct taking his final salary to £140k a year the equivalent salary of 4.2 nurses. According to Daily Mirror, who would stick the boot into the government at every chance. I’m not sure at what pay scale of nurses this represents, it’s just under £35k per nurse. Someone has already pointed out that they paid £340k to an individual who claimed they were bullied, by Priti Patel. 
I’ve never been able to understand why some people in local government and high ranking public sector roles earn considerably more than MP’s, some more than the PM.

I just wish it would be possible for someone to press a reset button.

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I can't believe the government have people arguing for them. After brassing up their mates to the tune of billions have people really still got anything but contempt for this government. Oh I forgot they got Brexit done so they get a free pass on everything else. An absolute disgrace and those backing the government are as well in my eyes. 

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4 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Firstly, can I say I can’t stand Cummings another smarmy snake, that seems to be a requisite qualification for most politicians. That is correct taking his final salary to £140k a year the equivalent salary of 4.2 nurses. I’m not sure at what pay scale of nurses this represents, it’s just under £35k per nurse. Someone has already pointed out that they paid £340k to an individual who claimed they were bullied, by Priti Patel. 
I’ve never been able to understand why some people in local government and high ranking public sector roles earn considerably more than MP’s.

i wish that it would be possible for someone to press a reset button.

How many nurses could we have got for the failed track and trace system? 

 

How could any money promised to the NHS (£350m/week) have been in 2016? We literally just left the EU, that money should be there now, not in 2016. 

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This country, like every other country, does have a massive debt and this government despite being in power since 2010 has not reduced the debt, even pre covid, in spite of debt reduction being one of it's key promises. The UK debt of more than £2 trillion will never be paid off, If governments had to live within their means nothing would ever get done. For all the financial problems the country has, white elephant projects such as HS2, current estimates over 100 billion, but could end up being massively more, are still going ahead. I would argue that it makes more sense to reward health service essential workers along with other front line public sector workers a decent salary commensurate with skill and experience to encourage young people to join the NHS, Police, Fire Brigade and Teaching professions etc. Other countries such as Australia treat their health workers far better than the UK. My daughter's best friend moved to New Zealand after qualifying, and stayed there for ten years before moving to Australia, and now does a similar job in a Sydney hospital earning twice as much as my daughter for less hours.

The problem is that Boris Johnson has always favoured vanity projects, Boris's Garden Bridge, his bridge/tunnel between Scotland and Ireland, Boris's Bikes (or should that be Ken Livingstone's) and Boris's Airport Island. As somebody who worked at Manchester Airport for twenty five years, oh how we laughed.

The Tories will never adequately fund the public sector. Maybe they could take it out of the £350 million per week for the NHS.

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30 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Well that's one view, but rather more emotive and less objective than mine I think.

If your definition of objectivity leads to an answer that ignores the vast sums of money wasted by the government on a failed response to the pandemic and settles on “everyone else has been screwed over” so they should be thankful they have been “screwed over” less... then you are welcome to it.
 

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22 minutes ago, WV said:

How many nurses could we have got for the failed track and trace system? 

 

How could any money promised to the NHS (£350m/week) have been in 2016? We literally just left the EU, that money should be there now, not in 2016. 

Because that was part of the manifesto, when we had to vote to remain or leave. When it comes to wasting money, I totally agree with you, but that’s what the public sector does really well. If public sector agencies were private companies they all be made bankrupt and wound up. If you ask any trades person about contracts fir work carried out for public sector companies they always add on at least a third more, because it’ll be paid, at sometime.

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10 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

Yes they have. In the early eighties when they turned the police into a political organisation for their own ends. I think I’m right in saying that before the pandemic the nurses agreed a 3% pay rise, if the pandemic hadn’t come along would they have handed it back.? They did sign up to help people which is what they’ve done isn’t it.? What about those in the private sector who won’t be getting any sort of pay rise and will possibly lose there jobs, which only pay the living wage, my thoughts are with these people and their families. Fir me these people are the backbone of Britain.

It’s all one big mess and life will never be fair, fact

Can't argue with much of that mate.  I don't get a bad wage but I would hate to work out my actual hourly rate.

They get their pound of flesh, let's just say that.

I probably wont get much of a rise this year.

I'm private sector.

What I insinuated still stands though.

The Tories do not care about public services.

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4 hours ago, capirex said:

This country, like every other country, does have a massive debt and this government despite being in power since 2010 has not reduced the debt, even pre covid, in spite of debt reduction being one of it's key promises. The UK debt of more than £2 trillion will never be paid off, If governments had to live within their means nothing would ever get done. For all the financial problems the country has, white elephant projects such as HS2, current estimates over 100 billion, but could end up being massively more, are still going ahead. I would argue that it makes more sense to reward health service essential workers along with other front line public sector workers a decent salary commensurate with skill and experience to encourage young people to join the NHS, Police, Fire Brigade and Teaching professions etc. Other countries such as Australia treat their health workers far better than the UK. My daughter's best friend moved to New Zealand after qualifying, and stayed there for ten years before moving to Australia, and now does a similar job in a Sydney hospital earning twice as much as my daughter for less hours.

The problem is that Boris Johnson has always favoured vanity projects, Boris's Garden Bridge, his bridge/tunnel between Scotland and Ireland, Boris's Bikes (or should that be Ken Livingstone's) and Boris's Airport Island. As somebody who worked at Manchester Airport for twenty five years, oh how we laughed.

The Tories will never adequately fund the public sector. Maybe they could take it out of the £350 million per week for the NHS.

Good post. The money we saved with Brexit, would not buy a pack of plasters for the NHS

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17 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

 

If your definition of objectivity leads to an answer that ignores the vast sums of money wasted by the government on a failed response to the pandemic and settles on “everyone else has been screwed over” so they should be thankful they have been “screwed over” less... then you are welcome to it.
 

But again you're just being subjective and not objective. Let's have some facts not just pure emotion. I've already stated twice that emotionally, I can agree that nurses do warrant as big a pay rise as possible.  However, just over 50% of the TOTAL NHS budget goes into staff salaries, therefore for every 1% that gets added to pay is 1% less money available for much needed treatment for anyone who needs it.  And anyone should realise that all the cancelled/postponed treatment/operations caused by the pandemic require catching up on and all those require financing.

You don't really define what "been screwed over" means?  Are we all being "screwed over" by the fantastic and near miraculous vaccination programme?  This has cost millions, but is everyone else complaining?

The arguments I set out are not political, but merely economic facts.  Any health services are paid for purely out of taxation income and that is mostly supplied by wealth creation in the private sector which currently to a large dgree is on its knees financially.  Yes, nurses specifically and the NHS generally has done a magnificent job in very difficult circumstances and deserve all the thanks and recognition we can afford to give them. However many employees in certain sectors have only been paid at best 80% of their normal salary for months and some more have lost, or are about to lose their jobs over the coming months. Nurses have very secure employment and good pension provisions. 

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16 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

But again you're just being subjective and not objective. Let's have some facts not just pure emotion. I've already stated twice that emotionally, I can agree that nurses do warrant as big a pay rise as possible.  However, just over 50% of the TOTAL NHS budget goes into staff salaries, therefore for every 1% that gets added to pay is 1% less money available for much needed treatment for anyone who needs it.  And anyone should realise that all the cancelled/postponed treatment/operations caused by the pandemic require catching up on and all those require financing.

You don't really define what "been screwed over" means?  Are we all being "screwed over" by the fantastic and near miraculous vaccination programme?  This has cost millions, but is everyone else complaining?

The arguments I set out are not political, but merely economic facts.  Any health services are paid for purely out of taxation income and that is mostly supplied by wealth creation in the private sector which currently to a large dgree is on its knees financially.  Yes, nurses specifically and the NHS generally has done a magnificent job in very difficult circumstances and deserve all the thanks and recognition we can afford to give them. However many employees in certain sectors have only been paid at best 80% of their normal salary for months and some more have lost, or are about to lose their jobs over the coming months. Nurses have very secure employment and good pension provisions. 

The only way of catching up is by spending more money, losing trained and experienced nurses/doctors will make the job more difficult. To promise a 2.5% rise and then take it away is not acceptable.  Economically it is better to have a fit and healthy nation, to be more productive and avoid sickness. It is purely political on how resources are used.  We are a wealthy country, use it.

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No doubt the public sector will be offered a very generous 2% closer to the next election.

This government is a bunch of corrupt clowns.

They’ll try and tell you that black is white.

I, for one, am going to be looking forward to seeing ‘where my money has been spent’ in the new media room. Can’t wait!

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1 minute ago, Diego Maradona said:

No doubt the public sector will be offered a very generous 2% closer to the next election.

This government is a bunch of corrupt clowns.

They’ll try and tell you that black is white.

I, for one, am going to be looking forward to seeing ‘where my money has been spent’ in the new media room. Can’t wait!

Divide and rule, set private sector against public sector workers a familiar tactic. It was not £350M on the side of the bus but £3.50 for the nurses.

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26 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

But again you're just being subjective and not objective. Let's have some facts not just pure emotion. I've already stated twice that emotionally, I can agree that nurses do warrant as big a pay rise as possible.  However, just over 50% of the TOTAL NHS budget goes into staff salaries, therefore for every 1% that gets added to pay is 1% less money available for much needed treatment for anyone who needs it.  And anyone should realise that all the cancelled/postponed treatment/operations caused by the pandemic require catching up on and all those require financing.

You don't really define what "been screwed over" means?  Are we all being "screwed over" by the fantastic and near miraculous vaccination programme?  This has cost millions, but is everyone else complaining?

The arguments I set out are not political, but merely economic facts.  Any health services are paid for purely out of taxation income and that is mostly supplied by wealth creation in the private sector which currently to a large dgree is on its knees financially.  Yes, nurses specifically and the NHS generally has done a magnificent job in very difficult circumstances and deserve all the thanks and recognition we can afford to give them. However many employees in certain sectors have only been paid at best 80% of their normal salary for months and some more have lost, or are about to lose their jobs over the coming months. Nurses have very secure employment and good pension provisions. 

I get it and don’t disagree with what you are saying.

But equally, and factually this government has wasted vast amounts of  cash that could have been used to boost the NHS.

Im not even going into the £350m a week bus lie around Brexit. 

Yes other services have only been paid 80% but they havent been on the front line dealing with the virus face to face.

And factually they used the NHS as a PR weapon during the pandemic... the “NHS test and trace” is the best example to deflect from its failure by attaching NHS to the front so people wouldn’t criticise even though it was privatised to serco. That was the point of my original post. 

Oh ...My definition of screwed over is a real terms paycut after years of underpayment.

I also don’t buy your £1 spend on nurses means £1 less available for healthcare argument... I have done some healthcare consulting work and this assumption completely underplays the importance of a motivated, refreshed  nursing stats which has a huge impact on patient health out ones... it also misses the point that better paid nurses attracts more people to the role and therefore through demand and supply increases quality.

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