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. Avoid relegation

. Deadwood to door

. A pro squad better than what we have

. Solid at home / not leaking goals

. Challenge for playoffs

. Develop youth

There’s at least 5 points of order before giving youngsters a run out. I realise development runs alongside this list, but in terms of making it a priority, give it 18 months.

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Smith played 46 league games for us in L1, in a season where if Norman hadn't flogged two of our best players, we would have stayed up. Despite one bonkers and one useless manager., and an acid fuelle

My opinion on this is that what has happened today is what many have been crying out for in an age.  Since Adams left we have promoted from within apart from the Bruno experiment. How many of us

Very sad for Scott Brown and Luke Joyce. They go with my thanks for their efforts. Losing Tom Pope is equally sad but that’s the right decision. 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie Ford said:

This how I see it.

Unless they get success or see massive progress then a managers shelve life is very short & limited.

A Director of Football on the other hand is not under any pressure to win games on Saturday afternoon, so, he’s some kind of longevity.

The Director of Football will be building the academy side of it for the next 4 or 5 years which is a time frame most people on here are saying we need to see any productivity from the young players.

In the meantime the manager is obviously tasked with getting results on the pitch and if he does not get them, then he will be replaced but the replacement of the manager will not effect what the DOF & Carol are trying to build for the future.

In theory we could end up with 2 or 3 different managers over the next 4 or 5 years but that does not effect the bigger picture

Exactly. Seems like everyone has forgotten this but there was a bloke called David Flitcroft who was hired a few weeks ago to be our new director of football.

Flitcroft handles the recruitment, he builds the academy, he judges how well the manager is doing.

Clarke picks the team, motivates the players and sets the match day tactics. If he gets a new squad in the summer (be realistic and say half of them new new, assuming you keep the good half of the current squad) and can't get results out of them then he's out the door. Simple as.

Absolutely no point in having a director of football if we can't sack the manager because he's on some long term project and we can only judge him after five years.

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I love the theory of not signing injury prone players.

Players who have good acceleration and are fast (like Amoo) generally tend to be more susceptible to muscle injuries.

Players whose game is taking time on the ball, showing the opposition the ball, and making them commit before moving into the space they vacate (like Manny) will often pick up knocks due to the type of tackles and fouls that are made on them.

I would imagine at some point in his career Rodney may pick up similar injuries to Amoo. Jack Wilshere is probably an example of the way Manny plays at a higher level.

You can sign a team of players who aren't injury prone but you tend to lose these key aspects of the game that are key to being a strong team.

Sometimes you get lucky and the players you sign with these attributes have a sustained period where they avoid injuries. Sometimes you sign these players after their lucky period or as the injuries start to become more frequent. Sometimes you get players who have lost these key attributes as a result of the injuries they have sustained or because they have adopted training methods to make their bodies more resilient.

You can sign a team of players with no injury record but you probably won't have a team with enough variety to succeed.

This is why managers up and down the continue to sign players with injury records because they tend to offer something different.

There are obviously exceptions to this generalisation.

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2 hours ago, The Kalamazoo Kid said:

Exactly! Isn't the average spell of a manager about 2 years (if that)? Keeping a manager for 4 or 5 years is incredibly rare in recent times. (I do think that some Vale fans hark back to Rudge's time, but in that respect he was an absolute freak, same as Dario Gradi and Alex Ferguson).

Is the average Port Vale manager tenure all that different than many (/most) other clubs?

[EDIT : others had replied with similar points before I posted mine!......should type with more than one finger! 😆]

It's longer the average is just over a year.

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When you go back to Rudge.

He nearly lost his job but 88 cup run saved him.

what made Rudge indispensable was his ability to buy cheap develop and sell on thus making Vale a fortune. Football has changed but this is still the model Crewe use.

Rudge also used to change coaches more often then Copelands.

Every time we had a new one the team seem to improve. So it may not be sacking the manager is the answer but the coaches?

Player wise Swapping them all out is not the recipe for success. Look how much Mansfield have wasted in the past few years.

Out of the current bunch Rodney could be worth a mint if he continues to develop. He’s the sort of player all clubs want. He can score goals from anywhere and change the game.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, JohnJames said:

When you go back to Rudge.

He nearly lost his job but 88 cup run saved him.

what made Rudge indispensable was his ability to buy cheap develop and sell on thus making Vale a fortune. Football has changed but this is still the model Crewe use.

Rudge also used to change coaches more often then Copelands.

Every time we had a new one the team seem to improve. So it may not be sacking the manager is the answer but the coaches?

Player wise Swapping them all out is not the recipe for success. Look how much Mansfield have wasted in the past few years.

Out of the current bunch Rodney could be worth a mint if he continues to develop. He’s the sort of player all clubs want. He can score goals from anywhere and change the game.

 

 

Rudge was also good at picking up coaches who often went on to bigger and better things.  I don't recall him sacking any.

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1 hour ago, JohnJames said:

Didn’t he get rid of Oakes and Pejic? Didn’t the latter get the push for his aggressive treatment of players  throats?

Bell liked to sack coaches too behind Rudge's back

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The last few games for me has made me think I’d keep Crookes, but obviously as a squad player. We need a 4th centre half and a back up left back. He does 2 in 1 for you and I imagine isn’t on a high wage. And last 3 games showed he can do ok when coming in.

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If we do the same thing we'll get the same result. So big change is needed in the Summer. Of course change is also risky and we rely on the football knowledge of the new structure put in place to steer us through that. We must get the forwards right. We can't have an army of strikers none of whom are scoring. We must not keep or sign injury prone players and in particular key players who are injury prone. Its a tough place football in June but that's the nature of sport. 

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13 hours ago, Powerline said:

The last few games for me has made me think I’d keep Crookes, but obviously as a squad player. We need a 4th centre half and a back up left back. He does 2 in 1 for you and I imagine isn’t on a high wage. And last 3 games showed he can do ok when coming in.

Played in his proper position he has looked decent. I also think he can improve and is committed. Seems like he has been better on the ball as well. I would most certainly keep him and work on him. 

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13 hours ago, Powerline said:

The last few games for me has made me think I’d keep Crookes, but obviously as a squad player. We need a 4th centre half and a back up left back. He does 2 in 1 for you and I imagine isn’t on a high wage. And last 3 games showed he can do ok when coming in.

If Clarke is looking for a more balanced squad then keeping Crookes makes sense as he's a left-sided player so offers another option at the back. I wonder if being in and out of the game earlier this season made it more difficult to be consistent and now he's getting a run of games it's doing him good. 

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I can see all our forwards apart from Rodney being ditched.. maybe depending on how he comes back Pope has a chance but i guess he will be offered less money if we do keep him then it will be left to him

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5 hours ago, robf said:

If Clarke is looking for a more balanced squad then keeping Crookes makes sense as he's a left-sided player so offers another option at the back. I wonder if being in and out of the game earlier this season made it more difficult to be consistent and now he's getting a run of games it's doing him good. 

Before Clarke came in i would of said Crookes time is up but since he has played 3 at the back i do think he is improving and maybe worth keeping for the year left on his deal to see how he goes(he does have a season left doesn't he?) I really do think most will be gone even some under contract we could see 15 or 16 new players coming in.

I know this will be against the grain but i dont even think Brown is safe now

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Before Clarke came in i would of said Crookes time is up but since he has played 3 at the back i do think he is improving and maybe worth keeping for the year left on his deal to see how he goes(he does have a season left doesn't he?) I really do think most will be gone even some under contract we could see 15 or 16 new players coming in.
I know this will be against the grain but i dont even think Brown is safe now

Crookes is out of contract at the end of the season
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I think decent is over stretching Crookes performance. 

He's been ok /acceptable. Maybe 6 to 6.5 out of 10 each game. Basically his stock appears to of gone up a notch with our fan base.

Hate to be negative nelly but I'm far from convinced 

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3 minutes ago, Jacob_123 said:


Crookes is out of contract at the end of the season

Ah yes so he is,that one is touch and go as well then although his performances under DC have done him no harm imo

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2 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

I think decent is over stretching Crookes performance. 

He's been ok /acceptable. Maybe 6 to 6.5 out of 10 each game. Basically his stock appears to of gone up a notch with our fan base.

Hate to be negative nelly but I'm far from convinced 

I totally agree going off performances prior to DC coming in,he has improved under DC there is no doubting that,is it enough to get a deal i doubt it at the moment

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