Retained list

[JohnJames]

17 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I hoped we could move on from 'definitely would have gotten in the playoffs if not for COVID', as it's not provable.

We were outside the playoffs at the time of stopping, and there were 9 games left. We were 8 unbeaten, but 4 of those (including the final three before the stoppage) were draws, and some were tame at that. The only great performance in that run was Colchester; we snuck a win away at Northampton, were 2nd best in the draw versus Walsall etc.

We'd been 10th all season and put a bit of a run together, but we'd have had to continue the excellent, anomalous form for another 9 games without slipping up.

We could have reached the playoffs, sure, but those treating it as a formality shows a bit of recency bias because we happened to have good results just before the stoppage. It's pedantic of me but I keep reading it and there's every chance we ended up in 10th, which is where we'd been 90% of the season.

That doesn’t make the players completely <ovf censored> though does it?

it also doesn’t make it a bad season. 
 

some of our fans make Marvin the Paranoid Android look cheerful

 

 

[manc_vale]

7 hours ago, toyahw said:

Let us face it, we will be rubbish next season.  Our longest in the lowest tier. What is DC going to pick up? Dross other teams have kicked out, I would love to buy into the DC/AF "project".  But for me it is all  talk talk and no knickers.

Another season of drift with a shouty man shouting. Bloody depressing,

 

Dear me, you never know we might not. It's not unusual for clubs at this level to transform their squads over the summer. Look at Bolton.

At least the management team are trying, from Carol downwards they are prepared to take a risk to get a reward. I think its fantastically brave and shows a lot of faith and confidence especially given how it went when Bruno assembled a curious squad a few years ago. 

There is a lot of dross out there, but there are also some gems. Conlon is a prime example. I am more optimistic than I have been in years. Will we be romp it to promotion next season, probably not. Will we be vying for promotion, I expect so, and that makes for a great season and great times at VP. Would we be vying for promotion is DC didnt make these drastic changes - certainly not.

[Rocky]

8 hours ago, toyahw said:

Let us face it, we will be rubbish next season.  Our longest in the lowest tier. What is DC going to pick up? Dross other teams have kicked out, I would love to buy into the DC/AF "project".  But for me it is all  talk talk and no knickers.

Another season of drift with a shouty man shouting. Bloody depressing,

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but this is just pointlessly negative. "Talk talk and no knickers"? Clarke took over a sinking ship in Bristol Rovers in March 2014, over the summer canned 13 players, rebuilt and got them back into League 2. The following season he did it again and got promoted into League 1. Must have been dumb luck and lots of shouting though, eh?

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, JohnJames said:

That doesn’t make the players completely <ovf censored> though does it?

it also doesn’t make it a bad season. 
 

some of our fans make Marvin the Paranoid Android look cheerful

 

 

It doesn't, but this players have spent about 3 weeks in the League 2 Top Seven since we got relegated 4 years ago. Enough is enough. An 8 game unbeaten run is small evidence in comparison to 3.5 years of underperformance, and you certainly can't use said evidence to argue we would definitely have made the Top 7. Form changes, rapidly (as we saw this season).

They may not be completely awful, but they're not good enough to take us up - they've had multiple chances and failed to deliver bar the odd 8 game spell. They've spent more time battling relegation than top 7 contention. Promotion in whatever form has to be the aim next year, or getting very close to doing so. If this squad just released has failed to do so, we need to rebuild.

The last comment confuses me as I'm really excited at present. Massively optimistic. Being realistic about the shortcomings of this squad is not the same as being miserable. I want what's best.

[Joe B]

Bar Brown, I don't know which players people are so worried about replacing.

Pope was, at most, a back up striker. Joyce was likely to face competition if he stayed. Montano would have been a utility left-sided player and many advocated for a specialist left back. Brisley is the third best centre-back at the club.

We're talking about one regular starter and 4 squad players next season. The rest of the retained list weren't even decisions. No brainers.

Brown will be a challenge, but bar that, we still needed mass improvement of the first 11. Nothing's changed there. If we'd retained the aforementioned players, their roles would have been reduced and replacements for their first team minutes would have been needed.

[vale victory]

Bar Brown, I don't know which players people are so worried about replacing.
Pope was, at most, a back up striker. Joyce was likely to face competition if he stayed. Montano would have been a utility left-sided player and many advocated for a specialist left back. Brisley is the third best centre-back at the club.
We're talking about one regular starter and 4 squad players next season. The rest of the retained list weren't even decisions. No brainers.
Brown will be a challenge, but bar that, we still needed mass improvement of the first 11. Nothing's changed there. If we'd retained the aforementioned players, their roles would have been reduced and replacements for their first team minutes would have been needed.

Completely and utterly spot on Joe
The reaction of some on here and social media is like we are doing another Bruno experience and we will fall flat on our faces

It was time for an overhaul

[Sandyford_Lion]

10 hours ago, Warren said:

In running organisations its usually best to go for incremental change that leads to continuous improvement. Big change is usually only used when there is no real alternative; some sort of crisis. The reason for this logic is that big change carries significantly more risk of going wrong. 

But this is sport and players can flatline a club for season after season. If we kept the same squad we would get pretty much the same result next season; perhaps worse as key players age further. So if we want to move up the league transformational change is needed; but in the main better players require higher wages. In attracting them, the lessons of Bury must be learned. Everything has to remain sustainable and realistic. 

incremental change is great. Our problem is that we have also reached the end of the line with Pope Brown Joyce. Three key players. I would also add Legge to that list. To expect another top season from those four would be wrong in my opinion.

This season had to be the big one unfortunately.  We have released 15, Manny just before, 2 loan players gone and 3 on transfer list. Thats 21 players and in all honesty there is not much to say against releasing them all.

D C now has to do his job. Find a new team and gel them together. Has been done before so its not impossible. I do agree that we had to have the clear out we have had. We had some rubbish in those 21 players

[Sandyford_Lion]

9 hours ago, toyahw said:

Let us face it, we will be rubbish next season.  Our longest in the lowest tier. What is DC going to pick up? Dross other teams have kicked out, I would love to buy into the DC/AF "project".  But for me it is all  talk talk and no knickers.

Another season of drift with a shouty man shouting. Bloody depressing,

 

We are Vale fans. We have to trust D C and his team to find and then tempt them to the Vale. Money will still be the biggest influence which is why out top earners had to go. They were not good enough.

[Sandyford_Lion]

3 hours ago, JohnJames said:

The one where we would have got into the play offs if we had played till the end of the season not being counted?  
There’s a lot of players in those 15 who are good players but just getting on a bit starting with Pope

Jeez Stalinism is alive and well at VP.

 

 

True about some good players. They have been / were good players but do we really need to keep hold of them for another season. On top money for the Vale too. That is the reason to move them on i believe mpore than anything else.

[Valiant in Brum]

Completely and utterly spot on Joe
The reaction of some on here and social media is like we are doing another Bruno experience and we will fall flat on our faces

It was time for an overhaul

I agree if anything we are finally seeing the back of that awful era with Bruno as we were still suffering the effects of that.

We needed a reboot of the players. We could not carry on as we were. Covid can be blamed all we like. Infact it was inconsistencies that caused us to fall short last season as a couple of weeks before we were in the play offs before being cancelled.

This is very different we have a DoF who has experience winning promotion from League Two and a manager with experience from league two. All with contacts. We are in better hands than under Bruno.

[geoff1]

5 hours ago, sunny boslem said:

😂 go back bed 

christ man, give them a chance🥴

[1]

anyone who can't see the difference between a mass intake under Bruno and a mass clear-out / rebuild under Clarke is on the other side of a chasm too wide for me to bridge in less than 100 posts / 1000 words. so just wait and see instead, and let actions and results speak.

[The man in the pub]

11 hours ago, Warren said:

In running organisations its usually best to go for incremental change that leads to continuous improvement. Big change is usually only used when there is no real alternative; some sort of crisis. The reason for this logic is that big change carries significantly more risk of going wrong. 

But this is sport and players can flatline a club for season after season. If we kept the same squad we would get pretty much the same result next season; perhaps worse as key players age further. So if we want to move up the league transformational change is needed; but in the main better players require higher wages. In attracting them, the lessons of Bury must be learned. Everything has to remain sustainable and realistic. 

Hopefully Warren with the smaller squad rules the same kitty can be spread over fewer players, meaning we could pay higher wages. After several years of saying it, maybe this will be the season when we actually get Quality over Quantity.

[Doha]

 Press reports were true

2 years with an option on a  3rd

Good luck to him.

 

 

[PV1973]

Good luck to him. Tells you what kind of level the Scott’s premier league is.