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13 minutes ago, LancyTony said:

Correct - but, in the case of Scott Brown it would be because he is a very good GK and might be able to pass on his knowledge and experience? Not so sure Tom Pope would make a Coach? If Billy Paynter is doing a good job, do we need another ex-striker as Coach?  I've a feeling Danny Pugh will be let go, if not this season then next? Legge, I think, will have one last season with us then I'd love to see him retained as an Ambassador for the Club.

Lancy, what are your thoughts on Pugh being let go. I thought Carol thinks the world of him and he didn’t do too bad as caretaker

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23 minutes ago, MBE said:

Sorry but I can't see how you can erase 4 months of abject failure because the players have done OK in the last 2 weeks. There is a lot wrong with this squad irrespective of the next 9 games.

 

You do know that things have changed, substantially, over the last 4 months?

Crookes is a perfect example of that - from "he'll never make a footballer" to being considered as MOTM in his last couple of games, with a steady improvement over the last 4 weeks. if he continues to improve, or, at least maintain his current standard, would you really let him go based solely on what he did when the team was struggling, and we were woeful, defensively, and he's a young lad whose confidence was probably low with keep being hammered for "not being a footballer"?

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11 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Lancy, what are your thoughts on Pugh being let go. I thought Carol thinks the world of him and he didn’t do too bad as caretaker

I think it's up to DC and DF. I think Clarke didn't offer his wholesale support to Danny Pugh, when asked a similar question? He may have been tactful about it, but I expect if he's not seen as vital then DC will release him? Carol would, surely, respect the decision of someone she appointed to make just that kind of decision? I don't think we were that much better with him as caretaker - marginally better than john Askey and we managed some points, but, mostly, there wasn't much improvement on the way we played?

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Just now, LancyTony said:

ou do know that things have changed, substantially, over the last 4 months?

Crookes is a perfect example of that - from "he'll never make a footballer" to being considered as MOTM in his last couple of games, with a steady improvement over the last 4 weeks. if he continues to improve, or, at least maintain his current standard, would you really let him go based solely on what he did when the team was struggling, and we were woeful, defensively, and he's a young lad whose confidence was probably low with keep being hammered for "not being a footballer"?

I'm refering to Oct - Feb as failure.

Past few weeks after rocket up the arse we have done OK. I also pointed out earlier in the thread I would consider keeping Crookes as a utility defender in the squad, depending on the wages. He has without doubt being one of our more consistent better players since DC came to the club.

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1 minute ago, MBE said:

I'm refering to Oct - Feb as failure.

Past few weeks after rocket up the arse we have done OK. I also pointed out earlier in the thread I would consider keeping Crookes as a utility defender in the squad, depending on the wages. He has without doubt being one of our more consistent better players since DC came to the club.

I agree - leading to the sacking of the Manager. but you did say you can't erase 4 months of failure because the players have done ok in the last 2 weeks - but, you can, as proven by Crookes!

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Monty and Brown are the only 2 that should get contracts and only 1 year deals they would be good squad players that you know can preform. The recently renamed Manny when fit is the hardest one for me because he is such a great player but he hasn't been fit for 3 years and if he goes on to have a good career somewhere else I'd be happy for him but we have wasted enough time and money on him.
As for the improved players like crookes they are still not good enough to be first team players which means they are not going to seamlessly slip into a better team and do a good job. We need a better first 11 and then keep our good players as squad players so they have to improve to play regularly. Imagine how good a squad we would have if Worrall and Gibbons weren't guaranteed a place because we have players good enough to keep them out of the team. No more replacing poor squad players with more poor squad players let's try and sign first team players that are good enough to challenge and replace our current best 11 which shouldn't be to difficult considering we are in another relegation battle.

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Let's be honest a major overhaul is needed on the playing side next season for me we need 2 strong centre backs a left  back. Clarke has said they need 2 defensive midfielders they also need a wide player and 2 strikers. Myself if the manager could get his head straight i would go after Mitch Clarke again something went radically wrong when he came back to us he was the best left back for us since Tankard then suddenly it went pear shaped i am sorry to say but Monty is not in Mitch's class as a full back he also can play left or right which is a big bonus.Now going on to Manny it's no coincidence that the last two matches that we have won Manny has played the majority of minutes on the pitch for me he gives us the power in midfield that we are lacking  i am sure if he can stay fit he would be the first name on the team sheet for a start he could do Joyce's roll standing on his head.Now for the biggest problem goalscorers we need 2 plus Rodney who is learning every match he plays very impressed with him can only get better under the watchful eye of Clarke.Finally what a difference Crosby has made on the sideline he is there in a minute telling players what he wants nice to see instead of looking at statues with there arms crossed all the match.

 

 

 

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I must admit I have been very much on the  side of a major clear out this Summer.  It however got me thinking that when we put a shift in we havent been outclassed by many in this league. As has been said previously there isnt much in this league sometimes just a goal in it. Is what we are really missing a nailed on 20 goal a season striker to partner Rodney?  In an ideal world use the combined wages of Guthrie, Theo and Cullen and buy us a striker who does what he is supposed to do and score goals. Would that single action and Clarkes rocket up the backside for most of the squad be enough to see us challenging for promotion ?

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12 hours ago, MBE said:

Sorry but I can't see how you can erase 4 months of abject failure because the players have done OK in the last 2 weeks. There is a lot wrong with this squad irrespective of the next 9 games.

 

You say that, but many were happy to erase all of Askey's and the squad's good work based on the month of November...

I agree there's a lot wrong with the squad, but there's a decent core there. I'm not convinced we need wholesale changes. Remember, if we'd had a half decent finisher in the side, things could have been very different at Christmas.

Seven out, 4/5 in, I reckon.

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My thoughts are we should keep no more than our best 11 and let Clarke and Flitcroft build their own 11, and hopefully a mixture of the two will see us challenging for promotion. 

So my best 11 based on a combination of players still under contract, and potential to be part of a promotion push are as follows: 

                      Brown
  Gibbo    Smith   Legge   Monty

                     Manny

               Taylor   Conlon

       Worrall     Rodney    Amoo

The big question marks regarding the above are Monty and Manny, and a lot will depend on them remaining fit for the last 9 games. Maybe the jury is still out, but I just love watching them play and think they are up there with the best players in league 2 when they are on their game. Another factor will be wages, as I imagine they are among the highest paid in the squad. 

Whatever happens, we need at least 9 new players. Not only do they have to be good enough to get promotion, but also need to be good enough to hold their own in league 1. Luton is a good example of a core of players who have move seamlessly up the leagues. 

This summer will define the Clarke/Flitcroft era and Carol’s Football management recruitment vision. 

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43 minutes ago, Moz said:

You say that, but many were happy to erase all of Askey's and the squad's good work based on the month of November...

I agree there's a lot wrong with the squad, but there's a decent core there. I'm not convinced we need wholesale changes. Remember, if we'd had a half decent finisher in the side, things could have been very different at Christmas.

Seven out, 4/5 in, I reckon.

What has suggested we have a decent core? The last two games? This decent core are now past it imo. Brown, legge, Joyce and pope all past it. We have been shocking all season we need a clear out not another year of keeping the same players that we keep struggling with. 
 

Don’t agree re the finisher. Yes we need one and would have been better if we had got a decent forward in obviously. However that is the same across the pitch. If only we had a decent centre half that didn’t make countless errors, a decent winger that can stay fit, a decent CDM ect ect. This team & squad is miles off being good enough, proven by the utterly atrocious season. Get the majority out and start again

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15 hours ago, Portvale4 said:

It’s certainly going to be a huge summer down the Vale, and Clarke/Flitcroft have got a massive job on their hands to make it a successful one. 

This is just my opinion! 

Release: 

Visser, Brisley, Mills, Fitz, DTS, McKirdy, Cullen, Guthrie. 

Pay up: 

Whitehead, Robinson (what was Mr. Askey thinking with 2 year deals...) 

Unsure: 

Tom Scott, RCG - Both are under the age of 21 when the season starts, therefore they wouldn’t need to be registered apart of the squad of 20. So, I can’t really give much of an opinion on these pair. However, Campbell-Gordon was highly rated at one point, and he’s a local lad, so I’d like to see him. 

Burgess (1 year left) - I like Scott, and he impressed me last season. For whatever reason, that form hasn’t carried over to this year. Therefore, I’m undecided. I’ll leave that one to Clarke. 

Retain: 

Brown (1 year deal) - Admittedly, Brown hasn’t reached his high standards of previous seasons, but that’s expected when he’s got a load of dross in front of him. However, for me, he’s still one of the best in division. 

Crookes (1 year deal) - This may come as a surprise, but I like Adam. His ability to fill in at CB and LB is important. Also, I think Clarke is a fan of his. 

Monty (1 year deal) - He’s a solid League Two footballer. Likewise with Crookes, he’s versatile and that is going to be even more important with the squad size reduction. 

Legge (1 year deal) - I like Leon. If you would have asked me about a month ago, I would have said release but he’s showing his class yet again. He would be nothing more than a back up, but one I’d like to see stay. 

Joyce (1 year deal) - Yet again, Joyce would be a back up. However, I wouldn’t be against him starting. With Clarke’s clear disapproval of 1 CDM in the squad currently, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joyce here next year. 

Manny (1 year deal) - For me, Manny is one of the best midfielders in the division when fit. As well know, that’s a big IF. However, with Flitcroft/Clarke looking to improve our injury records, I’d be tempted to risk another year with Manny. He could genuinely be the difference between a good and very good side. He’s simply that good.

Hurst (1 year deal) - Alex is another one I like. He started off fantastically, but understandably dropped off. I’ve seen plenty of criticism about Hursty, but just remember, it’s his first season in the EFL and he’s 21. He was brought into the side when we were really struggling, and his performance levels were dragged down because of it. Yes, his final product needs to improve, but he’s got plenty of time to work on that. 

Sir Tom (1 year deal) - Popey gets criticised left, right and centre by some on here. Why? I’ll never know. It’s funny, we he’s out injured our fans are crying out for him to come and save us again. For me, every squad needs a Pope and I’d 100% back him to still do a good job. 

Under contract: 

Gibbons, Smith, Conlon, Taylor, Worrall, Amoo, Rodney

If everyone signed, that would leave us with 15 players. We’d be able to sign 5 players over the age of 21, and then I’d be going for a few youngsters who’ve been released from the Prem/Championship. 

Before any starts, I don’t think our starting 11 currently is that far of being a good side. I think 5/6 additions would complement this side very nicely. 

 

I agree that we cant go making wholesale changes and expect to gel straight away and when our strongest 11 has been fit we have done ok this year. However with the squad limits as sad as is is I think Manny would have to go because of his injury record. 

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50 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

What has suggested we have a decent core? The last two games? This decent core are now past it imo. Brown, legge, Joyce and pope all past it. We have been shocking all season we need a clear out not another year of keeping the same players that we keep struggling with. 
 

Don’t agree re the finisher. Yes we need one and would have been better if we had got a decent forward in obviously. However that is the same across the pitch. If only we had a decent centre half that didn’t make countless errors, a decent winger that can stay fit, a decent CDM ect ect. This team & squad is miles off being good enough, proven by the utterly atrocious season. Get the majority out and start again

The players you're listing, bar Brown, aren't what I'd call our core. I disagree that Brown is "past it." Pope will also be a very valuable squad player.

The core of this squad is Brown, Gibbo, Smith, Conlon, Oyeleke, Taylor, Worrall, Rodney, Amoo.

Those are all players who have proved themselves more than capable of performing at this level or the one above.

My point about the finisher was very much relating to the games pre-December, before the wheels fell off at the back. We were playing well, creating chance after chance, and nobody was putting the ball in the net. I'm not naive enough to believe it's is the limit of our problems, but our position could have been much improved.

We need to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater, IMO. It's all too easy to say that everything is terrible, it all needs changing. Recruitment at this level can be tricky, so let's focus on getting the 4/5 quality players into the positions where we need them: CB, LB, DCM, CF.

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1 hour ago, Moz said:

The players you're listing, bar Brown, aren't what I'd call our core. I disagree that Brown is "past it." Pope will also be a very valuable squad player.

The core of this squad is Brown, Gibbo, Smith, Conlon, Oyeleke, Taylor, Worrall, Rodney, Amoo.

Those are all players who have proved themselves more than capable of performing at this level or the one above.

My point about the finisher was very much relating to the games pre-December, before the wheels fell off at the back. We were playing well, creating chance after chance, and nobody was putting the ball in the net. I'm not naive enough to believe it's is the limit of our problems, but our position could have been much improved.

We need to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater, IMO. It's all too easy to say that everything is terrible, it all needs changing. Recruitment at this level can be tricky, so let's focus on getting the 4/5 quality players into the positions where we need them: CB, LB, DCM, CF.

I don’t think anyone is throwing the baby out of the bath water. It’s been an utterly atrocious season where we seem to have once again just about survived in league 2. Brown has been poor this season. Taylor looks a completely different player and let’s be honest way off it so far. Manny can’t be considered part of the core as he barely plays. Amoo has been very poor when fit. Even the likes of smith have been poor. I’d say the core is smith, gibbo, Conlon, Worrall, Rodney. Granted that’s not many and I understand recruitment is difficult however it is time for a clear out of this group of players and start again imo 

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7 hours ago, Boslem's Brazil said:

My thoughts are we should keep no more than our best 11 and let Clarke and Flitcroft build their own 11, and hopefully a mixture of the two will see us challenging for promotion. 

So my best 11 based on a combination of players still under contract, and potential to be part of a promotion push are as follows: 

                      Brown
  Gibbo    Smith   Legge   Monty

                     Manny

               Taylor   Conlon

       Worrall     Rodney    Amoo

The big question marks regarding the above are Monty and Manny, and a lot will depend on them remaining fit for the last 9 games. Maybe the jury is still out, but I just love watching them play and think they are up there with the best players in league 2 when they are on their game. Another factor will be wages, as I imagine they are among the highest paid in the squad. 

Whatever happens, we need at least 9 new players. Not only do they have to be good enough to get promotion, but also need to be good enough to hold their own in league 1. Luton is a good example of a core of players who have move seamlessly up the leagues. 

This summer will define the Clarke/Flitcroft era and Carol’s Football management recruitment vision. 

That 11, fit & on form is a top half L2 side. 
 

The issue being for the most part of this season, these players have neither been fit or on form for a lot of the time. The squad players have also been a real poor back up option. 

 

If we have aspirations on the top 7 then we have to bring in 6 or 7 players who are capable of improving that 11 that has been listed above.

Not an easy ask, but we certainly have a better infrastructure than 12 months ago to make that happen 

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