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12 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Loving this idea that all of these "quality" players are going to be queuing up at the doors to sign for Port Vale, a team that's yet again flirted with relegation to non- league.
A team that maybe incoming hopefuls know where it is.... but then they've got to convince their better halves that Burslem really is the place to be!
Don't get me wrong, I want what's best for Vale just like anyone else but get real folks, we aren't suddenly going to become the "go-to" club come June.

Flittcroft and DC thought it was. 😀

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29 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Loving this idea that all of these "quality" players are going to be queuing up at the doors to sign for Port Vale, a team that's yet again flirted with relegation to non- league.
A team that maybe incoming hopefuls know where it is.... but then they've got to convince their better halves that Burslem really is the place to be!
Don't get me wrong, I want what's best for Vale just like anyone else but get real folks, we aren't suddenly going to become the "go-to" club come June.

I don't think any club in League 2 is any more attractive than any other. We're all tinpot. The likes of Bradford and Salford maybe, but for most its all much of a muchness.

Wages dictate it. We should be able to offer a good pay packet in comparison to most clubs at this level.

The challenge of Flitcroft won't be to convince the bigger names to come here, but to find the overlooked/undervalued talent that, for whatever reason, other clubs haven't seen.

We haven't paid a DoF big money to come in and say 'yep, you should sign Danny Mayor and Jamille Matt. Flitters, you've done it again!'

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It’s certainly going to be a huge summer down the Vale, and Clarke/Flitcroft have got a massive job on their hands to make it a successful one. 

This is just my opinion! 

Release: 

Visser, Brisley, Mills, Fitz, DTS, McKirdy, Cullen, Guthrie. 

Pay up: 

Whitehead, Robinson (what was Mr. Askey thinking with 2 year deals...) 

Unsure: 

Tom Scott, RCG - Both are under the age of 21 when the season starts, therefore they wouldn’t need to be registered apart of the squad of 20. So, I can’t really give much of an opinion on these pair. However, Campbell-Gordon was highly rated at one point, and he’s a local lad, so I’d like to see him. 

Burgess (1 year left) - I like Scott, and he impressed me last season. For whatever reason, that form hasn’t carried over to this year. Therefore, I’m undecided. I’ll leave that one to Clarke. 

Retain: 

Brown (1 year deal) - Admittedly, Brown hasn’t reached his high standards of previous seasons, but that’s expected when he’s got a load of dross in front of him. However, for me, he’s still one of the best in division. 

Crookes (1 year deal) - This may come as a surprise, but I like Adam. His ability to fill in at CB and LB is important. Also, I think Clarke is a fan of his. 

Monty (1 year deal) - He’s a solid League Two footballer. Likewise with Crookes, he’s versatile and that is going to be even more important with the squad size reduction. 

Legge (1 year deal) - I like Leon. If you would have asked me about a month ago, I would have said release but he’s showing his class yet again. He would be nothing more than a back up, but one I’d like to see stay. 

Joyce (1 year deal) - Yet again, Joyce would be a back up. However, I wouldn’t be against him starting. With Clarke’s clear disapproval of 1 CDM in the squad currently, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joyce here next year. 

Manny (1 year deal) - For me, Manny is one of the best midfielders in the division when fit. As well know, that’s a big IF. However, with Flitcroft/Clarke looking to improve our injury records, I’d be tempted to risk another year with Manny. He could genuinely be the difference between a good and very good side. He’s simply that good.

Hurst (1 year deal) - Alex is another one I like. He started off fantastically, but understandably dropped off. I’ve seen plenty of criticism about Hursty, but just remember, it’s his first season in the EFL and he’s 21. He was brought into the side when we were really struggling, and his performance levels were dragged down because of it. Yes, his final product needs to improve, but he’s got plenty of time to work on that. 

Sir Tom (1 year deal) - Popey gets criticised left, right and centre by some on here. Why? I’ll never know. It’s funny, we he’s out injured our fans are crying out for him to come and save us again. For me, every squad needs a Pope and I’d 100% back him to still do a good job. 

Under contract: 

Gibbons, Smith, Conlon, Taylor, Worrall, Amoo, Rodney

If everyone signed, that would leave us with 15 players. We’d be able to sign 5 players over the age of 21, and then I’d be going for a few youngsters who’ve been released from the Prem/Championship. 

Before any starts, I don’t think our starting 11 currently is that far of being a good side. I think 5/6 additions would complement this side very nicely. 

 

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5 better new players = mid table

10 better new players = playoffs

13-15 better players = a year to build and a year to win the thing

that’s if we keep the best players we have.

it’s a big task and very much a 2 year project I reckon.

Resigning Hurst, Crookes and to an obvious extent the 6 non-leaguers in the squad would be like saying <ovf censored> it league 2 is where we belong.

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17 minutes ago, Portvale4 said:

It’s certainly going to be a huge summer down the Vale, and Clarke/Flitcroft have got a massive job on their hand’s to make it a successful one. 

This is just my opinion! 

Release: 

Visser, Brisley, Mills, Fitz, DTS, McKirdy, Cullen, Guthrie. 

Pay up: 

Whitehead, Robinson (what was Mr. Askey thinking with 2 year deals...) 

Unsure: 

Tom Scott, RCB - Both are under the age of 21 when the season starts, therefore they wouldn’t need to be registered apart of the squad of 20. So, I can’t really give much of an opinion on these pair. However, Campbell-Gordon was highly rated at one point, and he’s a local lad, so I’d like to see him. 

Burgess (1 year left) - I like Scott, and he impressed me last season. For whatever reason, that form hasn’t carried over to this year. Therefore, I’m undecided. I’ll leave that one to Clarke. 

Retain: 

Brown (1 year deal) - Admittedly, Brown hasn’t reached his high standards of previous seasons, but that’s expected when he’s got a load of dross in front of him. However, for me, he’s still one of the best in division. 

Crookes (1 year deal) - This may come as a surprise, but I like Adam. His ability to fill in at CB and LB is important. Also, I think Clarke is a fan of his. 

Monty (1 year deal) - He’s a solid League Two footballer. Likewise with Crookes, he’s versatile and that is going to be even more important with the squad size reduction. 

Legge (1 year deal) - I like Leon. If you would have asked me about a month ago, I would have said release but he’s showing his class yet again. He would be nothing more than a back up, but one I’d like to see stay. 

Joyce (1 year deal) - Yet again, Joyce would be a back up. However, I wouldn’t be against him starting. With Clarke’s clear disapproval of 1 CDM in the squad currently, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joyce here next year. 

Manny (1 year deal) - For me, Manny is one of the best midfielders in the division when fit. As well know, that’s a big IF. However, with Flitcroft/Clarke looking to improve our injury records, I’d be tempted to risk another year with Manny. He could genuinely be the difference between a good and very good side. He’s simply that good.

Hurst (1 year deal) - Alex is another one I like. He started off fantastically, but understandably dropped off. I’ve seen plenty of criticism about Hursty, but just remember, it’s his first season in the EFL and he’s 21. He was brought into the side when we were really struggling, and his performance levels were dragged down because of it. Yes, his final product needs to improve, but he’s got plenty of time to work on that. 

Sir Tom (1 year deal) - Popey gets criticised left, right and centre by some on here. Why? I’ll never know. It’s funny, we he’s out injured our fans are crying out for him to come and save us again. For me, every squad needs a Pope and I’d 100% back him to still do a good job. 

Under contract: 

Gibbons, Smith, Conlon, Taylor, Worrall, Amoo, Rodney

If everyone signed, that would leave us with 15 players. We’d be able to sign 5 players over the age of 21, and then I’d be going for a few youngsters who’ve been released from the Prem/Championship. 

Before any starts, I don’t think our starting 11 currently is that far of being a good side. I think 5/6 additions would complement this side very nicely. 

 

I'm sorry but we have got to be far more ruthless than that, we can't be only signing 5 or 6 players, we need a lot more than that.  Going on what you are saying giving deals to Manny, Joyce and Burgess and then having Taylor and Conlon under contract would leave 5 central midfields, clearly that would leave no room to sign any more midfielders.  This side is not good enough to challenge where we all want to be at, if we want to accept mid-table to bottom half then maybe but I don't want that like most Vale fans.  

Other than a good run just after Christmas last year this side/squad over 3 years has failed and we need a new spine with a younger first choice keeper, a partner to Smith, I still feel there is a decent defender there with the right player alongside him.  We need a midfielder like Manny that is not going to be injured and then a Pope replacement and obviously more besides.

 

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1 hour ago, robf said:

Sadly, I don't think there's any chance of getting Swan unless it's on loan. He's got three more years of his contract to run and was in their Championship squad this season.  Taylor took considerable effort to get permanently and he never even made the Forest first-team. I can't see Swan wanting to drop down to L2 when he may be pushing for a place at Championship level next season.

I think the idea of SB as goalkeeping coach is a nice idea though.

Can’t keep everyone on the payroll just because they’re too old to play.

pugh, paynter, Pope, brown. Legge can be the long throw in coach

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

I don't think any club in League 2 is any more attractive than any other. We're all tinpot. The likes of Bradford and Salford maybe, but for most its all much of a muchness.

Wages dictate it. We should be able to offer a good pay packet in comparison to most clubs at this level.

The challenge of Flitcroft won't be to convince the bigger names to come here, but to find the overlooked/undervalued talent that, for whatever reason, other clubs haven't seen.

We haven't paid a DoF big money to come in and say 'yep, you should sign Danny Mayor and Jamille Matt. Flitters, you've done it again!'

I agree on wages being more important but certain clubs are definitely more attractive than others. If you listen to the Ale and Vale pod with Manny he says how the stadium was one thing that made him want to sign for us. And you can see why. Would you rather play at a tinpot ground like Stevenage or Vale Park? 

Obviously other things come into it more like wages etc. but if you offered someone the same wages, we’re a more attractive proposition than half the clubs in this league imo. Especially now that the previous clown in charge has gone.

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Without sounding twee, as long as Carol owns the club we will progress in some way every year. It may be in small, slow ways, there might be mistakes. But some clubs in this league are run by ignorant, cheap, belligerent dinosaurs who will just drop and drop. We have had off-seasons in recent memory that have been entirely full of self-sabotaging balls-ups due to management. Those days are hopefully over, and I’m sure the next squad will reflect progress. Not night and day world beaters, but professional players operating in a respectable, ambitious set up.

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Making wholesale changes to the playing staff every year is not good for any football club and as Vale have found out the chances of signing new payers who will do well/wonders is not much better than flipping a coin.

I've read somewhere that Flitcroft and Clarke plan on using "metrics" to aid selection of players and I'm all for that if relevant but IMHO if a player has been the fan's player of the year or players player of the year then there can't be many better recommendation than that. 

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1 hour ago, valefan79 said:

I'm sorry but we have got to be far more ruthless than that, we can't be only signing 5 or 6 players, we need a lot more than that.  Going on what you are saying giving deals to Manny, Joyce and Burgess and then having Taylor and Conlon under contract would leave 5 central midfields, clearly that would leave no room to sign any more midfielders.  This side is not good enough to challenge where we all want to be at, if we want to accept mid-table to bottom half then maybe but I don't want that like most Vale fans.  

Other than a good run just after Christmas last year this side/squad over 3 years has failed and we need a new spine with a younger first choice keeper, a partner to Smith, I still feel there is a decent defender there with the right player alongside him.  We need a midfielder like Manny that is not going to be injured and then a Pope replacement and obviously more besides.

 

I’m not against what you’re saying, mate. I agree we have got to be ruthless. 

For one, Burgess has another year left on his deal. I never said give him another season. I put him under the ‘unsure’ because he’s shown glimpses of being a very good midfielder and he was apart of the midfield three that saw us nearly make the play-offs. However, like I said, he’s been nowhere near good enough this year. Therefore, it’s up to Clarke to decide whether or not he wants him. Personally, I’d be edging more towards letting him go, but I wouldn’t be against him staying. If he does go, that frees up room for another midfielder.

I’d offer Joyce another deal because he’s reliable and experienced. As I stated, Clarke obviously feels as though you need more than 1 CDM in a squad. Therefore, Joyce would be a sensible back-up option alongside a new CDM. 

My opinion on Manny is this - judging by Clarke and Flitcroft’s talk of poor mismanagement of the players, in terms of injury, Manny should be given another chance. I’ll put it this way - if Manny completes all the remaining games now, would you offer him a new deal? I certainly would. Maybe next season our management of the players fitness will be better. 

I disagree with your view on the GK situation. Yes, Brown hasn’t set the world alight this year. However, I still believe he’s one of the better keepers in this league. Maybe a younger understudy, who will challenge him more than Visser and Scott have done, is what’s needed. I’d keep Brown 10000%.

I’m aware we need a new CB. That would be a priority for me. I said give Legge another year because he’s an experienced head, who is good in the dressing room and he’s certainly a suitable back-up. 

I agree we need a Pope replacement, but that is reasonably difficult. They don’t come cheap, so we are talking a risk on any forward we bring in. I’m also not expecting, nor do I want Pope to start every week. 

Finally, I’m fully aware this squad isn’t good enough for promotion and I’m certainly not accepting mid-table. However, there is some good players in this squad. Alongside 6/7 signings, I don’t think we’d be far off. The key to our success is keeping the likes of Gibbons, Monty, Manny, Worrall and Amoo fit, whilst also recruiting a lot better than we have previously. 

Something I didn’t mention - Rodney will most certainly attracting suitors from above. Keeping hold of him will also be key. 

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1 hour ago, 1 said:

5 better new players = mid table

10 better new players = playoffs

13-15 better players = a year to build and a year to win the thing

that’s if we keep the best players we have.

it’s a big task and very much a 2 year project I reckon.

Resigning Hurst, Crookes and to an obvious extent the 6 non-leaguers in the squad would be like saying <ovf censored> it league 2 is where we belong.

Therefore, if it’s a 2 year project, we go out and sign 6/7 new players and push up the table. Then add a few bits of quality the following summer. 

Hurst and Crookes, for me, haven’t done that much wrong. They’ve been brought into struggling side and looked okay.

Hurst is young and you’re basing your opinion on him off 20 EFL games in a struggling side. Give the lad a break man! 

Crookes is versatile. Do you really think we could go out and sign someone similar for the price who’d be happy for a place in the squad? I don’t think. 

You say 6 non-leaguers, can you name them? 

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22 hours ago, andy jones said:

My view is that there isn't a lot wrong with the majority of the squad.

They finished 8th last season, started this one wel!, Then hit the buffers.

the next 9 games will dictate whether there is a cull or not. 

Sorry but I can't see how you can erase 4 months of abject failure because the players have done OK in the last 2 weeks. There is a lot wrong with this squad irrespective of the next 9 games.

 

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1 hour ago, 1 said:

Can’t keep everyone on the payroll just because they’re too old to play.

pugh, paynter, Pope, brown. Legge can be the long throw in coach

Correct - but, in the case of Scott Brown it would be because he is a very good GK and might be able to pass on his knowledge and experience? Not so sure Tom Pope would make a Coach? If Billy Paynter is doing a good job, do we need another ex-striker as Coach?  I've a feeling Danny Pugh will be let go, if not this season then next? Legge, I think, will have one last season with us then I'd love to see him retained as an Ambassador for the Club.

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6 hours ago, Wrex said:

No the PFA successfully challenged the wage limit in court but the squad limit wasn't discussed in the court case.

I believe the EFL were/are going to discuss controlling squad sizes as they can't control the wages paid out - which would seem to me to be the fairest way?

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3 hours ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Loving this idea that all of these "quality" players are going to be queuing up at the doors to sign for Port Vale, a team that's yet again flirted with relegation to non- league.
A team that maybe incoming hopefuls know where it is.... but then they've got to convince their better halves that Burslem really is the place to be!
Don't get me wrong, I want what's best for Vale just like anyone else but get real folks, we aren't suddenly going to become the "go-to" club come June.

It's been generally accepted that there may well be more pros looking for clubs, this close season? We are, now, much more attractive club than we have for a long time - better owners' more professional setup and a community club with a proven track record...which may well impress some players? Plus, they don't have to live in Burslem, if they don't like the Mother Town - just be near enough to play for us without ridiculous commutes! So - yes - I would expect us to be able to attract players of better quality, especially if we might release 6 -10 players and be able to offer decent wages? Let's be honest - even with Smurthtwat stinking the place out we were able to attract quality players!

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