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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

All well and good, but the remit is to develop young players.  Where does signing experienced players sit with that? 

The remit is to get out of this dogsht league and worry about development from 2022/2023 onwards. 

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Players under contract are:

James Gibbons - UNDER CONTRACT
Nathan Smith - UNDER CONTRACT
David Worrall - UNDER CONTRACT
Tom Conlon - UNDER CONTRACT
Theo Robinson - UNDER CONTRACT
Jake Taylor - UNDER CONTRACT
Danny Whitehead - UNDER CONTRACT
David Amoo - UNDER CONTRACT
Scott Burgess - UNDER CONTRACT
Devante Rodney - UNDER CONTRACT

That's 10 players out of the 20 we're allowed over the age of 21 (I believe that's the right age barrier). Whether I would keep those players or not, those are the ones we are stuck with going forward. Which means we have to be clever about the remaining 10 spots.

We need a goalkeeper. There has been a lot of arguments this season regarding Scott Brown. Personally he's still one of the best keepers in the division. If the management team think they can find better, then release - but I would offer him a contract. Any back up has to be a young keeper because we can't really afford to waste another spot on someone who is going to warm the bench. The only way I think this could be different is if Brown starts coaching and becomes player coach and is more of a back up. At least that way we get more out of two over aged keepers.

For the rest of the squad I would definitely only keep:

  • Alex Hurst - Young and showing enough that he deserves a place.
  • Cristian Montano - Love him as a full back and can change a game.
  • Kurtis Guthrie - I know he's yet to score but he is working hard and, as a team player, has been more effective that any of the other central strikers (Rodney has always been better in a wide position)

That leaves another 7 spots to fill, so the following players are a maybe:

  • Scott Brown (See reasons above)
  • Tom Scott - not sure how old he will be
  • Ryan Campbell-Gordon - young enough, just depends if that coaching staff deem him to be good enough.
  • Luke Joyce - Good player but is advancing in age.
  • Tom Pope - Again, good player in his day but isn't getting any younger. If he is on a good wage I would give him a year as I agree with previous comments that he is still effective at holding the ball up and can score.

Leaving the following players to be released:

  • Mark Cullen - too injury prone
  • Zak Mills - not done it here. There must be something to him as Oldham liked him but we haven't seen it. I don't think he's as awful as people make out and has a goal in him BUT he is too prone to a defensive lapse that usually gets punished.
  • Shaun Brisley - we have enough defenders that can defend but can't actually play football.
  • Dino Visser - Just no room for two older keepers, unless we go down the coaching route I previously mentioned - but if so I think we would need better to justify it.
  • Harry McKirdy - even if he was involved he can literally only play in an advanced no. 10 position which, with restrictions, we cannot afford.
  • David Fitzpatrick - has been a steady eddie but we need better if we want to push on.
  • Daniel Trickett-Smith - not proven anything at this level.
  • Leon Legge - I still think he is our best centre half but he is aging in years and we cannot just have dominant centre halves, we need some that can play too - and we already have Smith. But if contract rumours are true we may still have him, which wouldn't be awful but would take up another space.
  • Manny Oyeleke - Cracking player when he plays but that's not often enough unfortunately. If he can play until the end of the season without getting injured and prove his fitness then he would be a maybe.
  • Adam Crookes - Not attacking enough for a left back. Not strong enough as a centre half. Can only really play on the left of a back three and even then his distribution is poor.

Of the players under contract I would try to move Robinson and Whitehead on but we may not have a choice so as of right now they're in.

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Players id keep

Brown, Scott, gibbons, Smith, Campbell gordan, crookes, worrall,hurst,Taylor,conlon,montano, Guthrie,rodney and pope. 

Release the out of contract ones like brisley Cullen and mills. Not sure what to do with Robinson burgess and Whitehead as I'd want rid but can't see anybody wanting to take them. Might be harsh on me saying release visser and Joyce but we don't want be having too many over 30 aged players. 

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5 minutes ago, Andy Proctor said:

Players id keep

Brown, Scott, gibbons, Smith, Campbell gordan, crookes, worrall,hurst,Taylor,conlon,montano, Guthrie,rodney and pope. 

Release the out of contract ones like brisley Cullen and mills. Not sure what to do with Robinson burgess and Whitehead as I'd want rid but can't see anybody wanting to take them. Might be harsh on me saying release visser and Joyce but we don't want be having too many over 30 aged players. 

We might have to pay them off to free up space. 
 

Clarkes comments about holding midfielders and having hardly any left sided players tells me that they’ll be a midfield clearout and at least 1, maybe 2 of the centre halves will go. Interesting hearing him talk about seeing Crookes as a left back too. 

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

Where was that said?

Jesus man, stop being so pedantic. Goal #1 is to escape this dreadful embarrassment of a league that makes us lose money on opening the away end most of the time. Or shall we deliberately languish down here for another five years on purpose waiting for youth players to become good enough to go up.

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2 hours ago, PV1973 said:

Interesting hearing him talk about seeing Crookes as a left back too. 

Yeah, I noticed that quote too :-

"...not one left-footed centre half. In my opinion Crookesy can play there but he is a left back."

If Clarke sees him as a left-back then he'll surely be released in the Summer, as he's poor at left-back IMO and better at centre-back? (and even then, preferably when playing 3 centre-backs together).

Clarke also remarked that Crookes defended well on Tuesday, but commented on his distribution and quality on the ball.

 

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5 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

All well and good, but the remit is to develop young players.  Where does signing experienced players sit with that? 

You can't have a team, at any senior level, with only U21 players. You need experience, for the young guns to lean on and learn from, to get their development going. We won't have a U21 team, made up of foreigners like at Man City, United or Liverpool. We will have to find the gems, in a now increased competitive environment because of the new rules.

Just see what happened at the Prem clubs, when the home grown rule was introduced. Suddenly the poachers where out and about, with a blank cheque book to get the best youths. We, or any other L1 or L2 club for that matter, won't be able to compete with that in any way shape or form. 

So to be fair, I don't really see or understand, why the obligation to develop young UK players, has landed almost exclusively on the shoulders of the L1 & 2 clubs.

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5 hours ago, Doha said:

I must have imagined all the goal kicks in that Stevenage game. 

Yes - but as part of his warm up he needs to pace out the distance from the wing to the centre off the goal at every match as he consistanly hits them far too long. He's young enough and if Vales training pitch is not exactly the same size as the real pitch I would have him spending an hour a day hitting balls from each wing and aiming them at Front post Back post and centre spot in turn. He needs to be able to do that without thinking "how hard should I hit this one " which is what he looks like now. Like I say he is young and looks good, now its up to him to hone his skills.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

You ok hun?  I only asked where it was said.  I dont recall that being an immediate goal when the structure was put in place.  In fact I would argue that we are 2-3 seasons away from a realistic go at it.  The player turnover this summer will render next season as a team building one, the following summer would be a tweaker to add a bit of quality where needed and then season 3 should be a promotion target.  If anyone is expecting to challenge next season... lol.

Most clubs in our league will have a big turnover of players this summer the days of building a team over 2or 3 seasons has long gone so to say it’s 2 to 3 seasons away is boll-cks we need to be up there next season 

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9 hours ago, 1 said:

How is Legge a fan favourite?

Id literally keep Brisley as back up to a new decent CB rather than him.

Because, mostly, he has done well for us and been a leader on the pitch, since he joined us. Then he is a very well-respected ambassador for one of those conditions that sports people tend not to talk about, in case it is seen as weakness or jeopardises their career; and, often, that the public are pretty much ignorant about.

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9 hours ago, Doha said:

Scott Brown - Offer 1 Year
Tom Pope - Difficult one. He'd be 36 a few games in, but is one of the best in L1/L2 at hold up play and heading. If Clarke is minded to set up for floating crosses to a target man, offer 1 year as an impact sub
Cristian Montaño - Risky injury record, not as bad as some but not great. Offer 1-2 Years
Alex Hurst - Offer 2 Years, ship him out on a long loan for some non league hoofing, getting battered and refining his crossing under pressure from the fullback. 
Dino Visser - I'd like to see us sign a youth goalkeeper, send them out on loan for 46 games, and if Visser is fit again after the training injury, Offer 1 Year


Adam Crookes - Release
Luke Joyce - Release
Leon Legge - Release
Manny Oyeleke - Massive shame, but release. Averages 15 league appearances a season, madness. 
Mark Cullen - Release
Kurtis Guthrie - Release
Zak Mills - Release
Shaun Brisley - Release
David Fitzpatrick - Release
Daniel Trickett-Smith - Release
Harry McKirdy - Release

Theo Robinson - Mutual termination 
Danny Whitehead - Mutual termination
David Amoo - Too injury prone, too inconsistent. Mutual termination


Ryan Campbell-Gordon - Impossible to say 
Tom Scott - ""

I think termination is a bit drastic - couldn't we just ask them to leave?

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9 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

and thats why we will keep going around the same loop.

I'm reasonably sure somebody on this forum, recently, came up with stats to show that clubs with a high turnover of players tend to be more successful than those that keep a settled squad?

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