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Firstly let me say how made up I am to be not worrying about relegation anymore. There is, however, a question I've been asking myself and that's 'how much has this amazing revival been down to the arrival of Andy Crosby and how will we fare without him next season or is it all DC's doing'?

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Not read through all the posts but as it's titled "Darrell Clarke", I wanted to post my thoughts. When you come in as a new manager you have to focus on the immediate issues. If you think back to

Players deserve credit for tonight but special shout out to Darrell Clarke for me. He set us up with a game plan that saw us dominate the majority of the first half. We should've been 2 goals to

Heres an idea why dont we judge him on what he does at vale rather than going off the word of previous fans. There are fans that love him like bristol rovers and fans who arent keen of him walsall. Wh

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Warning, some people may get offended by what I’m about to say....

Great turnaround over the last three games BUT I’m not going overboard and start making comments about DC / DF being inspirational appointments....yet.

We all know that we are a significantly better side when we have a fit Manny, Monty and Gibbons (I appreciate he hasn’t featured in the last 3) in the side, to the extent that we can literally beat anyone in the division (a la Exeter away, Bolton away).

So I think an upturn was likely as we started to get our better players back especially as we always seem to play better when the pitches are drier.

If the season finished now, I would say DC had done what was expected of him. Relegation - and we are not yet assured of our safety - would be a travesty but barring a catastrophic injury crisis we should be ok.

After his first 5/6 games and we’d got, what, 2 points and not scored a goal was anybody calling his appointment inspirational?? Far from it, particularly given the rhetoric seemed to be constantly berating our ‘lack of quality’. 

Now after winning three games on the trot which - by his own admission have been partly through grinding out results - folk on here would have him a the new Messiah. 

Next season will demonstrate whether he’s a inspirational appointment or not, but having made Crookes and Mills look respectable players at this level, the signs are encouraging.

 

Statistically Vale have been one of the top sides in this league WHEN we have had Oyeleke, Conlon and Joyce fit for 3 seasons. I suspect what will define Clarke's managerial reign is what to do about Manny;

If he lets him go can he find someone just as good to make up his midfield 3

If he keeps him can he keep him on the pitch more than Aspin and Askey managed to do. 

As a 3 they give the side a bit of everything you'd want from a midfield 3. Take one out and we lose something. If you let Oyeleke go then maybe Joyce needs to as well and we should be looking for a different midfield blend. That is the biggest call Clarke needs to make over the next month and will probably define next season and his time as manager. For me it is, ultimately, what lost Askey and Aspin their jobs. Its also a massive part of why we currently look a better side.

Edited by JRC
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It looks good at moment . What’s impressed me is we start out 433 them morph in 352 then back to 433 then back to 352 . In this respect it’s one of the most fluid vale sides .It’s no wonder teams are having difficulty against . Well done DC and the coaching team .

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Been on the Walsall Facebook site , just payback for a few weeks back , they said the past “ couple” of results are just papering over the cracks and the rot will set in when he gets his own players in !!! 
Think they’re forgetting a certain Mr Flitcroft 

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49 minutes ago, Rockape99 said:

It looks good at moment . What’s impressed me is we start out 433 them morph in 352 then back to 433 then back to 352 . In this respect it’s one of the most fluid vale sides .It’s no wonder teams are having difficulty against . Well done DC and the coaching team .

I agree. Which presents an interesting dilemma around where Gibbons fits in when he’s fit.  It’s noticeable that when sides have started slinging crosses in  chasing the game we’ve dealt with it relatively comfortably, not the usual panic stations (a la Tranmre) going into injury time. Having 3 centre backs has undoubtedly helped that. 

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For next season we need a new goalkeeper, a first team center back, IMO someone to replace Joyce but ultimately if we can find a 25 plus goals center forward we will get promotion. 
Clarke has turned things round but ultimately he will be judged on how he does next season and the above are a must for him to succeed.

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39 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

I agree. Which presents an interesting dilemma around where Gibbons fits in when he’s fit.  It’s noticeable that when sides have started slinging crosses in  chasing the game we’ve dealt with it relatively comfortably, not the usual panic stations (a la Tranmre) going into injury time. Having 3 centre backs has undoubtedly helped that. 

And it was the same centre backs who created mayhem in Crawley's box last week leading to Conlon's opener.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Eddie Ford said:

Can you show us a copy of these stats please 

My rough working out suggest the original claim is correct. It's startling

My criteria is games in which Oyeleke, Joyce, and Conlon started together as a midfield three.

In the 18/19 season we were in deep trouble before that Notts County game away (Oyeleke played a lot more but as a 2 in a 442/5221, and Joyce was in and out), and that was one of the first games we started with Oyeleke, Joyce, and Conlon as a three.

We won 4, drew 2, and lost 1 of next 7, before Manny got injured again and we failed to win another game.

Last season, 19/20, Manny only started 2 games and we drew both of them, against Northampton and Colchester (playoff sides).

This season, they started Exeter away together (2-0 win), Harrogate at home together (0-0 draw), Orient at home together (3-2 loss), Bolton away together (6-3 win), Colchester at home together (1-1 draw), and then the last 4 (4 wins).

I'm sure I've missed some but that adds up to:

18/19 - 7

19/20 - 2

20/21 - 9

18 games together as a three.

Won 10

Drew - 6

Lost - 2!!!!

A win ratio of 55%.

A daft exercise - this extrapolates to 90 points over a 46 game season - title-winning form.

Across three seasons, with 3 different managers and varying (usually poor) supporting cast, Oyeleke, Conlon, and Joyce (starting as a trio) have been involved in title-winning form, whilst the club has battled relegation twice in the same time-frame.

That's genuinely mad.

Edited by Joe B
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19 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

For next season we need a new goalkeeper, a first team center back, IMO someone to replace Joyce but ultimately if we can find a 25 plus goals center forward we will get promotion. 
Clarke has turned things round but ultimately he will be judged on how he does next season and the above are a must for him to succeed.

I don’t think there’s any doubting that the first signing will be a densive midfielder followed by a striker. Clearly he’s happy to have Legge around another 12 months and, again as last year, Brisley is performing well when he’s given a run of games. 

I have a feeling that Clarke won’t in fact make the wholesale changes people believe. I’d think players like Amoo, Cullen, Guthrie, Whitehead, DTS, Fitz, Visser, possibly McKirdy and even Robinson may be moved on. Mills and Crookes have improved under DC so I wouldn’t say they were certain to go. The $m questions are around the midfield i.e. Manny and Joyce, plus Pope. 

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He wants better quality he says in his interviews that we are grinding out results through effort and a little bit of quality. He knows that most of these players haven't got the skill set to get us promotion and the fact we are 16th in a poor league backs that up

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5 hours ago, JRC said:

Statistically Vale have been one of the top sides in this league WHEN we have had Oyeleke, Conlon and Joyce fit for 3 seasons. I suspect what will define Clarke's managerial reign is what to do about Manny;

If he lets him go can he find someone just as good to make up his midfield 3

If he keeps him can he keep him on the pitch more than Aspin and Askey managed to do. 

As a 3 they give the side a bit of everything you'd want from a midfield 3. Take one out and we lose something. If you let Oyeleke go then maybe Joyce needs to as well and we should be looking for a different midfield blend. That is the biggest call Clarke needs to make over the next month and will probably define next season and his time as manager. For me it is, ultimately, what lost Askey and Aspin their jobs. Its also a massive part of why we currently look a better side.

For me we look a better balanced side when we have Wozza,Manny and Monty back in the side?

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1 minute ago, For Us All said:

For me we look a better balanced side when we have Wozza,Manny and Monty back in the side?

Much better side, I agree.

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

My rough working out suggest the original claim is correct. It's startling

My criteria is games in which Oyeleke, Joyce, and Conlon started together as a midfield three.

In the 18/19 season we were in deep trouble before that Notts County game away (Oyeleke played a lot more but as a 2 in a 442/5221, and Joyce was in and out), and that was one of the first games we started with Oyeleke, Joyce, and Conlon as a three.

We won 4, drew 2, and lost 1 of next 7, before Manny got injured again and we failed to win another game.

Last season, 19/20, Manny only started 2 games and we drew both of them, against Northampton and Colchester (playoff sides).

This season, they started Exeter away together (2-0 win), Harrogate at home together (0-0 draw), Orient at home together (3-2 loss), Bolton away together (6-3 win), Colchester at home together (1-1 draw), and then the last 4 (4 wins).

I'm sure I've missed some but that adds up to:

18/19 - 7

19/20 - 2

20/21 - 9

18 games together as a three.

Won 10

Drew - 6

Lost - 2!!!!

A win ratio of 55%.

A daft exercise - this extrapolates to 90 points over a 46 game season - title-winning form.

Across three seasons, with 3 different managers and varying (usually poor) supporting cast, Oyeleke, Conlon, and Joyce (starting as a trio) have been involved in title-winning form, whilst the club has battled relegation twice in the same time-frame.

That's genuinely mad.

Basically right but I think you've missed a couple of games.

I think we averaged points as follows

20/21 2  points a game (think they've played 10 times)

19/20 1 points per game (only 2 league matches)

18/19 2.33 points per game (think they started 9 league games)

I think we've also won 5 of 6 cup games they started. Of the 4 league losses over that time one of the 3 has been sent off early in the second half of three of the games. We actually still have a much better record when 2 start and one is on the bench.

It's keeping all 3 on the pitch that has been the issue .... particularly Oyeleke.

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18 minutes ago, JRC said:

 

It's keeping all 3 on the pitch that has been the issue .... particularly Oyeleke.

And that’s big but in all of this. One thing we need to improve is the quality of our replacements. The likes of Mills, Whitehead, Burgess etc make the team weaker and this is a problem when you get injuries and suspensions. 
I like Manny but in his 9 seasons in football (non league and league) he’s barely averaging 17 games a season which is not enough.

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2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

For next season we need a new goalkeeper, a first team center back, IMO someone to replace Joyce but ultimately if we can find a 25 plus goals center forward we will get promotion. 
Clarke has turned things round but ultimately he will be judged on how he does next season and the above are a must for him to succeed.

Any club that can find a 25 goal CF would be a good bet for promotion!

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12 minutes ago, soothsayer said:

And that’s big but in all of this. One thing we need to improve is the quality of our replacements. The likes of Mills, Whitehead, Burgess etc make the team weaker and this is a problem when you get injuries and suspensions. 
I like Manny but in his 9 seasons in football (non league and league) he’s barely averaging 17 games a season which is not enough.

Which really takes us back to my initial point about the ultimate test of Clarke's management.  Can he replace Oyeleke with someone as good in a midfield 3 or can he get 35 games a season from him by managing him better, or can he come up with an equally good blend in the engine room. Unlikely he will upgrade him as any better midfield players will be playing higher up the pyramid. 

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2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

For next season we need a new goalkeeper, a first team center back, IMO someone to replace Joyce but ultimately if we can find a 25 plus goals center forward we will get promotion. 
Clarke has turned things round but ultimately he will be judged on how he does next season and the above are a must for him to succeed.

I think Devante is the man to get 25 next season.

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15 minutes ago, Brian said:

Any club that can find a 25 goal CF would be a good bet for promotion!

They will be in the mix, yes but we have a decent squad as well when half the teams in this division do not.

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