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Monty involved in 30+ games for the last 5 seasons. Is unfairly bracketed with Manny, and definitely one to keep for both his versatility and creativity - something we desperately need more of.

Second highest scorer when he's been on the wings, keeping natural full-backs out of the team when he's been played out of position at left-back. All round good egg. Certainly one to keep for me.

After Carols interview, I'm beginning to feel more positive about the season to come. A new manager with positive ideas, coming into a massive summer for us with basically a clean slate and squad. A

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22 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Potential player identification is a club responsibility, setting up a scouting system etc. Managers come and go, they have a say and bring their own club contacts, but clubs need a permanent structure.

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

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3 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

How scouting works these days, is very much online based. I talked to the Head Scout at FC Midtjylland, when his son played at my club. Because I wondered how a Danish club, ended up finding a random striker ie. Lithuania. 

And they use an online scouting system. Enter the parameters they are looking after, ie. right footed,  strong 1v1, age bracket etc. The database then gives them an array of players with attached videos. They then look at all the videos, narrow down the search even more. When they are down to about 3-5 players, first then do they go to actually watch the player live. They want to watch him in games where he is matched, overmatched and undermatched. To see how he reacts under pressure and when he is on top. Then they make a decision about their priority, when having watched all of the shortlist, before presenting it to the big bosses at the club.

Not that Vale are doing this 1:1, but I imagine much of the scouting is done online these days. There are numerous databases for this; eye4talent, MyScout etc. 

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11 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

The answer to this is you commit to a certain style of football and transfer policy, coordinated by a Director of Football, and only appoint coaches/sign players which fit this model. Everything the club does is tethered by a few key values, which help to limit decision making and narrow the recruitment field.

There's a reason all the big clubs do it; it works. 

Edited by Joe B
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7 hours ago, Danish Valiant said:

How scouting works these days, is very much online based. I talked to the Head Scout at FC Midtjylland, when his son played at my club. Because I wondered how a Danish club, ended up finding a random striker ie. Lithuania. 

And they use an online scouting system. Enter the parameters they are looking after, ie. right footed,  strong 1v1, age bracket etc. The database then gives them an array of players with attached videos. They then look at all the videos, narrow down the search even more. When they are down to about 3-5 players, first then do they go to actually watch the player live. They want to watch him in games where he is matched, overmatched and undermatched. To see how he reacts under pressure and when he is on top. Then they make a decision about their priority, when having watched all of the shortlist, before presenting it to the big bosses at the club.

Not that Vale are doing this 1:1, but I imagine much of the scouting is done online these days. There are numerous databases for this; eye4talent, MyScout etc. 

I would sincerely hope we do scout like this, but this past summer's business suggests we do not, as most of the players were known to Askey in some fashion.

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

I would sincerely hope we do scout like this, but this past summer's business suggests we do not, as most of the players were known to Askey in some fashion.

I reckon its a bit of a mix. Seemed like we had spent a good while tracking Rodney so i imagine that was more in depth (especially as we gave a 3 year contract)

There might have been other potential signings we also invested a lot of time in, but for whatever reason they didn't come off and we ended up signing a few more educated guesses - whitehead, robinson etc. On paper solid signings but just a shame how it has turned out.

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Monty involved in 30+ games for the last 5 seasons.

Is unfairly bracketed with Manny, and definitely one to keep for both his versatility and creativity - something we desperately need more of.

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24 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

I reckon its a bit of a mix. Seemed like we had spent a good while tracking Rodney so i imagine that was more in depth (especially as we gave a 3 year contract)

There might have been other potential signings we also invested a lot of time in, but for whatever reason they didn't come off and we ended up signing a few more educated guesses - whitehead, robinson etc. On paper solid signings but just a shame how it has turned out.

Not sure why whitehead should have been a solid signings? He’s done nothing in the football league 

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33 minutes ago, Bald Eagle said:

Monty involved in 30+ games for the last 5 seasons.

Is unfairly bracketed with Manny, and definitely one to keep for both his versatility and creativity - something we desperately need more of.

Second highest scorer when he's been on the wings, keeping natural full-backs out of the team when he's been played out of position at left-back. All round good egg. Certainly one to keep for me.

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1 hour ago, valiant_593 said:

Not sure why whitehead should have been a solid signings? He’s done nothing in the football league 

I was thinking more along the lines that he supposedly did well in the conference and sometimes not much difference to league 2. I seem to remember everyone being reasonably pleased when he signed as another squad player.

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20 hours ago, Danish Valiant said:

How scouting works these days, is very much online based. I talked to the Head Scout at FC Midtjylland, when his son played at my club. Because I wondered how a Danish club, ended up finding a random striker ie. Lithuania. 

And they use an online scouting system. Enter the parameters they are looking after, ie. right footed,  strong 1v1, age bracket etc. The database then gives them an array of players with attached videos. They then look at all the videos, narrow down the search even more. When they are down to about 3-5 players, first then do they go to actually watch the player live. They want to watch him in games where he is matched, overmatched and undermatched. To see how he reacts under pressure and when he is on top. Then they make a decision about their priority, when having watched all of the shortlist, before presenting it to the big bosses at the club.

Not that Vale are doing this 1:1, but I imagine much of the scouting is done online these days. There are numerous databases for this; eye4talent, MyScout etc. 

Really interesting - especially about the matched/overmatched and undermatched - I've not heard of that before.

Aren't FC Midtjylland co-owned by the Brentford owner? Who seem to discover a plethera of talent: Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Konsa, Mepham, Hogan, Egan, Tarkowski to name a few!

Also, can you introduce your scouting friend to Carol please? :laugh: :laugh:

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1 minute ago, valeparklife said:

Really interesting - especially about the matched/overmatched and undermatched - I've not heard of that before.

Aren't FC Midtjylland co-owned by the Brentford owner? Who seem to discover a plethera of talent: Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Konsa, Mepham, Hogan, Egan, Tarkowski to name a few!

Also, can you introduce your scouting friend to Carol please? :laugh: :laugh:

Matthew Benham. Very smart guy who transformed Midtjylland and Brentford by implementing data analytics from top to bottom. Would love for Carol to have a meeting with him.

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4 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Really interesting - especially about the matched/overmatched and undermatched - I've not heard of that before.

Aren't FC Midtjylland co-owned by the Brentford owner? Who seem to discover a plethera of talent: Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Konsa, Mepham, Hogan, Egan, Tarkowski to name a few!

Also, can you introduce your scouting friend to Carol please? :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah they are 🙂

I could, but he now works at FC Nordsjælland, who have just been bought by Arabic billionaires... They do, however, do things a bit different, as they rely very much on young players and in fact have the youngest team in the Danish Premier League.

But, incidentally, two of the Danes at Brentford, Mathias Jensen and Emiliano Marcondes, both came from FC Nordsjælland.

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7 hours ago, Danish Valiant said:

Yeah they are 🙂

I could, but he now works at FC Nordsjælland, who have just been bought by Arabic billionaires... They do, however, do things a bit different, as they rely very much on young players and in fact have the youngest team in the Danish Premier League.

But, incidentally, two of the Danes at Brentford, Mathias Jensen and Emiliano Marcondes, both came from FC Nordsjælland.

Nordsjaelland are really interesting too. Don't they have links with the Right to Dream Academy? And as a consequence pick up a lot of West African players? 

Seems there's a lot of innovation in Danish football.

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3 hours ago, Joe B said:

Nordsjaelland are really interesting too. Don't they have links with the Right to Dream Academy? And as a consequence pick up a lot of West African players? 

Seems there's a lot of innovation in Danish football.

They do. The new owners are heavily invested in Right to Dream as well. Half the FCN team, are from Ghana.

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I think this summer is a massive opportunity to re-align how we approach things.

Even in the halcyon days where there was greater parity, you still had teams spending more and accumulating bloated squads. We've never been in territory like the one we will encounter in 21/22.

The salary cap, for all its flaws, should in theory benefit the smarter, efficient clubs and punish the lazy, inefficient clubs.

I would love to think we were sitting down/Zooming some clever individuals from across the sporting industry to allow us to take advantage of these changes; scouting networks, data analytics, squad building, cap management, decision-making structure.

Having a clear vision on how we want to play, what sort of players we want to sign, where/how we will find them, how much we can spend on each position; these are the things to be nailed down now if this is to be a 'pause' season.

Could be a good opportunity. Could.

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Is Martin Foyle still 'Head of Recruitment' at Motherwell? This is the sort of role we need.

He's clearly well-regarded:

Quote

Speaking in September 2019, "Well" scout Martyn Corrigan credited Foyle with bringing a high calibre of players to Fir Park, calling him a "workaholic" with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the English football's lower leagues

Source: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/motherwell-talent-spotter-hailed-fir-20077539

Quote

The likes of Trevor Carson, Cedric Kipre, Charles Dunne and former players Louis Moult and Curtis Main have all been recruited for a relative pittance and Corrigan revealed all have had the hand of Foyle searching through their backgrounds.

This is what the club needs. Someone with a remit to coordinate recruitment, ideally with managerial experience at a good level.

They're struggling this season but finished 3rd last season. I'm not saying we appoint Foyle, but someone in that mould.

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