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Planning for 21/22


Joe B

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I agree that I’d like to see us utilise youth talent more, but he is only 19 and been sent out on loan to lower leagues club to gain experience - just as prem/champ clubs send theirs to us. 

I’d be surprised if he was going to be released, especially given the quota for next year. He probably needs to get stronger for the rigours of league football but I feel we’ve missed the attacking outlet that both Gibbo on the right and Clarke on the left offered last season, hopefully RCG can offer that next year as he’s eased into the first team picture. RCG will make mistakes but given he’s home grown, I think fans will be more patient with him as he adjusts. 

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Thus far our recruitment has not been the best. Robo and Mckirdy compound this. When you look at a few we have let go Hannet,whitfield and Quigly  you can’t but wonder. I know some players do well at one club but struggle at others, it does annoy the few we let slip through our fingers, I think letting Morsey go was with out doubt one of the worst decisions we ever made. I suppose the other thing is injury prone players ! over the years we seem to have had more than our fair share, sorry but we cannot afford to have them. 

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Not sure you can argue too much about quigley and whitfield, they either didn’t show anything or were too inconsistent.  Arguably we weren’t in a situation to be giving players time to develop given we were flirting with relegation for a time. 

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Re RCG, I'm amazed he hasn't had a look in as yet, particularly this season. When you consider what he's got ahead of him in Fitzpatrick (very average L2 defender at best), Crookes (bloody awful and not a LB) and Monty (does a job when he's fit but not a LB), he's either considered to be worse than all 3 of those options (which, if that's the case, he probably needs to think about a new career), or isn't showing anything in training. Either way, how much worse could he be than what we've got?

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5 minutes ago, philmpv said:

Re RCG, I'm amazed he hasn't had a look in as yet, particularly this season. When you consider what he's got ahead of him in Fitzpatrick (very average L2 defender at best), Crookes (bloody awful and not a LB) and Monty (does a job when he's fit but not a LB), he's either considered to be worse than all 3 of those options (which, if that's the case, he probably needs to think about a new career), or isn't showing anything in training. Either way, how much worse could he be than what we've got?

It must be one of the 2 options you mention. He has got to do it in training and show the right attitude as well as talent, otherwise he just isn’t going to be in front of Monty and Fitzpatrick (who I think has done a steady job to be fair). 

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I think Fitz has been steady, I wouldn’t say he has particularly under performed and he’s made some vital interceptions or blocks when covering other people’s mistakes. The problem is, he doesn’t really offer much as an outlet on the attacking element. 
 

RCG hasn’t had any football league exposure. The club/management may think that he has first team potential but he’s just not ready at the moment. When the team was struggling, would you want to risk putting a youth teamer in - Askey did with Hurst but that was forced upon him due to injuries, COVID and not wanting McKirdy. 
 

if we can start to pick up points and ensuring we’re not dragged into a dog fight, they may give him some game time. 

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22 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Potential player identification is a club responsibility, setting up a scouting system etc. Managers come and go, they have a say and bring their own club contacts, but clubs need a permanent structure.

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

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3 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

How scouting works these days, is very much online based. I talked to the Head Scout at FC Midtjylland, when his son played at my club. Because I wondered how a Danish club, ended up finding a random striker ie. Lithuania. 

And they use an online scouting system. Enter the parameters they are looking after, ie. right footed,  strong 1v1, age bracket etc. The database then gives them an array of players with attached videos. They then look at all the videos, narrow down the search even more. When they are down to about 3-5 players, first then do they go to actually watch the player live. They want to watch him in games where he is matched, overmatched and undermatched. To see how he reacts under pressure and when he is on top. Then they make a decision about their priority, when having watched all of the shortlist, before presenting it to the big bosses at the club.

Not that Vale are doing this 1:1, but I imagine much of the scouting is done online these days. There are numerous databases for this; eye4talent, MyScout etc. 

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11 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with the way we've operated in the past with managers using their own scouts, is we pay the scouts to watch games, compile reports and analyse targets, then the manager gets sacked, the scout also leaves and takes all the knowledge away. Wasted money!

But then having a club scout creates a new issue - imagine Arsene Wenger was manager and the scout is out looking at technically gifted players, then Tony Pulis takes over afterwards and wants 7 foot giants. The previous scouting would be wasted.

I always remember Villa going after Roberto Martinez, then not being able to get him and appointing Alex McLeish! Literally at polar opposite ends of the footballing spectrum!

The way round it is to target certain managers that play a certain way and have a certain type of play.

Who'd run a football club eh?

The answer to this is you commit to a certain style of football and transfer policy, coordinated by a Director of Football, and only appoint coaches/sign players which fit this model. Everything the club does is tethered by a few key values, which help to limit decision making and narrow the recruitment field.

There's a reason all the big clubs do it; it works. 

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7 hours ago, Danish Valiant said:

How scouting works these days, is very much online based. I talked to the Head Scout at FC Midtjylland, when his son played at my club. Because I wondered how a Danish club, ended up finding a random striker ie. Lithuania. 

And they use an online scouting system. Enter the parameters they are looking after, ie. right footed,  strong 1v1, age bracket etc. The database then gives them an array of players with attached videos. They then look at all the videos, narrow down the search even more. When they are down to about 3-5 players, first then do they go to actually watch the player live. They want to watch him in games where he is matched, overmatched and undermatched. To see how he reacts under pressure and when he is on top. Then they make a decision about their priority, when having watched all of the shortlist, before presenting it to the big bosses at the club.

Not that Vale are doing this 1:1, but I imagine much of the scouting is done online these days. There are numerous databases for this; eye4talent, MyScout etc. 

I would sincerely hope we do scout like this, but this past summer's business suggests we do not, as most of the players were known to Askey in some fashion.

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

I would sincerely hope we do scout like this, but this past summer's business suggests we do not, as most of the players were known to Askey in some fashion.

I reckon its a bit of a mix. Seemed like we had spent a good while tracking Rodney so i imagine that was more in depth (especially as we gave a 3 year contract)

There might have been other potential signings we also invested a lot of time in, but for whatever reason they didn't come off and we ended up signing a few more educated guesses - whitehead, robinson etc. On paper solid signings but just a shame how it has turned out.

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24 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

I reckon its a bit of a mix. Seemed like we had spent a good while tracking Rodney so i imagine that was more in depth (especially as we gave a 3 year contract)

There might have been other potential signings we also invested a lot of time in, but for whatever reason they didn't come off and we ended up signing a few more educated guesses - whitehead, robinson etc. On paper solid signings but just a shame how it has turned out.

Not sure why whitehead should have been a solid signings? He’s done nothing in the football league 

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