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Carol on P ‘n’ G tonight


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5 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

There's nothing wrong with the players apologising to Carol. Her exact words (according to The Sentinel) were “The response I have had from players…I had players phoning me this week. I did have players phoning and apologising for not giving their all. They didn’t realise they weren’t but in retrospect they probably weren’t."
That doesn't mean they consciously weren't trying but merely that after the sht hit the fan, they realised that they could have applied themselves more, something we all knew anyway. Not ideal but happens in most workplaces. I don't always work my hardest and if things went <ovf censored> up at work then I'd apologise to my manager. Doesn't make me a vile snake or whatever the hysterical pearl-clutchers on here are saying.

I do think some of the reaction has been very melodramatic regarding this phone call.

Fans seem to be trying to absolve Askey of any agency and lay as much as possible on the players. Vile snakes and crybabies who don't care about the club, 'I hate this entire squad' etc etc. Mad.

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^This - those saying that Carols interview didn't inspire them with confidence, that the players are snakes etc obviously weren't listening to a word that she said!   We are going through un

There's nothing wrong with the players apologising to Carol. Her exact words (according to The Sentinel) were “The response I have had from players…I had players phoning me this week. I did have playe

Some of the commentd on this thread are genuinely disturbing. Carol has paid out millions over the odds to rescue the club from Smurthwaite, millions more to keep the club going through an unprecedent

I found the interview quite concerning.

It sounded like the decision to get rid of Askey was made pretty much on a whim with no thought to what would happen afterwards.
It divulged information which should have probably been kept in house.
Even the talk of a really experienced applicant having only been really successful in this league didn't sound great. When she is so busy, why does she even know about the applications from the chap from Burslem and the champ manager when her pa is screening them.

For the first time since taking over listening to Carol didn't instill me with any confidence.

At the same time she is a rookie owner learning her way in the game and this is her first experience of a situation like this. I hope the experience helps Carol to develop as an owner. For the first time whilst I have supported the Vale we have owners who I think that we can be proud of and that are a real asset to the community and football world.

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

Fans seem to be trying to absolve Askey of any agency and lay as much as possible on the players. Vile snakes and crybabies who don't care about the club, 'I hate this entire squad' etc etc. Mad.

Couple of weeks ago they couldn't wait to get rid of him, now it's apparently all the players conspiring to get him gone

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Some of the commentd on this thread are genuinely disturbing. Carol has paid out millions over the odds to rescue the club from Smurthwaite, millions more to keep the club going through an unprecedented worldwide crisis, has allowed the club to sign players such as Jake Taylor and is looking at paying out much more to carry on until fans are finally allowed back in and things get back to normal. We have no idea if that will be 2 months or 2 years. 

I'd absolutely forgive her for not wanting to take on an expensive new manager at this precise second when the (much cheaper) incumbent can carry on until the end of the season.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as results keep us clear of a relegation fight, give it to Pugh until the end of the season and then take stock of where we are. The prospect of a season with fans back and booming ticket sales is very different from the prospect of another season with no income.

 

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People wanted honesty and transparency from the club. Now they've got it they're not happy.

Carol was a bit too honest in her interview and people read too much into candid moments. This is why football people speak in clichés and try to avoid giving too much away if straying from the narrative.

A few players saying they feel bad for the manager losing his job has now been twisted to them purposefully losing matches to get him sacked.

As Blakeman correctly deduced though is that the manager's job is Pugh's to lose. That's the main takeaway from the interview. Which isn't a bad idea from a money saving exercise during a pandemic. Just get by to the end of the season and then properly evaluate the situation then.

I do worry though that it will be a case of "Danny has done alright so let's now give him the job permanently". It shouldn't be like that. He should be doing better than alright to be the next permanent manager. Michael Brown got us relegated for Christ's sake and people were saying "he deserves a chance to build his own squad". Look where that got us. I don't want any of that with Pugh. No rewards for failure. 3-0 against Grimsby will do nicely but I think if we finish in the bottom half of the table then there's no way he should get the job permanently.

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I found the interview quite concerning.

It sounded like the decision to get rid of Askey was made pretty much on a whim with no thought to what would happen afterwards.
It divulged information which should have probably been kept in house.
Even the talk of a really experienced applicant having only been really successful in this league didn't sound great. When she is so busy, why does she even know about the applications from the chap from Burslem and the champ manager when her pa is screening them.

For the first time since taking over listening to Carol didn't instill me with any confidence.

At the same time she is a rookie owner learning her way in the game and this is her first experience of a situation like this. I hope the experience helps Carol to develop as an owner. For the first time whilst I have supported the Vale we have owners who I think that we can be proud of and that are a real asset to the community and football world.
It is what PAs do, sort the post, email,calls. Then show Carol a few frivolous applications, and some high profile, for us, applications. Would take very little of Carol's time.
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7 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

There's nothing wrong with the players apologising to Carol. Her exact words (according to The Sentinel) were “The response I have had from players…I had players phoning me this week. I did have players phoning and apologising for not giving their all. They didn’t realise they weren’t but in retrospect they probably weren’t."
That doesn't mean they consciously weren't trying but merely that after the sht hit the fan, they realised that they could have applied themselves more, something we all knew anyway. Not ideal but happens in most workplaces. I don't always work my hardest and if things went <ovf censored> up at work then I'd apologise to my manager. Doesn't make me a vile snake or whatever the hysterical pearl-clutchers on here are saying.

I, too, saw the bit about players apologising.
I put myself in their shoes, and also in Carol's and why she shared it.
My manager gets the sack. I/we haven't been doing well on the pitch.
I hold my hands up, accept my part in it, and commit to doing better.
As chair, hearing this shows humility, acceptance of responsibility and a re commitment to the cause.
The players I might be more concerned about are those who say nothing, don't come forward, don't accept responsibility.
I would put money on the players apologising were Legge, Joyce, Brown, Monty, Wozza.
Real, rounded, conscientious people.

 

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13 minutes ago, gavcradd said:

Some of the commentd on this thread are genuinely disturbing. Carol has paid out millions over the odds to rescue the club from Smurthwaite, millions more to keep the club going through an unprecedented worldwide crisis, has allowed the club to sign players such as Jake Taylor and is looking at paying out much more to carry on until fans are finally allowed back in and things get back to normal. We have no idea if that will be 2 months or 2 years. 

I'd absolutely forgive her for not wanting to take on an expensive new manager at this precise second when the (much cheaper) incumbent can carry on until the end of the season.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as results keep us clear of a relegation fight, give it to Pugh until the end of the season and then take stock of where we are. The prospect of a season with fans back and booming ticket sales is very different from the prospect of another season with no income.

 

^This - those saying that Carols interview didn't inspire them with confidence, that the players are snakes etc obviously weren't listening to a word that she said!

 

We are going through unprecedented times, Covid 19 has had a massive impact on the wider world, individuals will be having family issues, mental health issues etc. Everyone deals with extreme situations differently and if some of the players have been struggling this may well have affected their focus on the games. Carol alluded to this in her statement - she also said that there were a myriad of things that had gone wrong and she rightly didn't list them out, she is the leader of a team of people and going through dirty linen in public isn't the best way to lead people.

I have had times when I have lost focus when there is so much else to think about outside of work, it is human to do this - unfortunately, football is a results business and the future of our club is at stake so Carol had to take action to address the decline and this will have rightly shocked some of the players, this is a sign that what Carol has given renewed focus to performance - so lets give the players a chance to put it right. 

Carol does have a plan B - she said so herself, its Danny Pugh, it is clear that she wants to focus spending at this risky time on the team and making sure short term results are good enough to get us through this season rather than the upheaval of a new manager, the extra spend and the uncertainty of success - she knows the players are behind Danny and it is only these players who can help us through this season - wholesale changes in Jan are impossible with salary caps and squad limits and would be unsettling at this time anyway.

We might not all agree with Carols approach, but please remember, we have fantastic owners who both love the club and are successful business people, they also know everything that is going on behind closed doors when we don't. Lets get behind them, the long term future of our club is a very bright one.

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It just proves that no matter what the club do, whether they stay quiet, tell all, reveal little bits of info.... that not all fans will be happy and will find something to moan about. 

Edited by PV1973
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I think people are misconstruing my comments. I'm just relaying the message the fans seem to be voicing. Not a criticism personally of her.

All I've said is that it is clear from Carol's interview that it is Pugh's job to lose, and this is a trial run, as Blakeman picked up with his questioning. Her honesty is refreshing, but I've noticed a bit of a backlash on social media regarding this view, and the players have gotten stick too. She perhaps should have worded things a bit better (which we're all guilty of), but I definitely think it was a bit soon to say the things she did as many fans are still a bit emotional about it all.

It's her club and I have full faith in her, and have done since before she took over.

Edited by Joe B

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17 minutes ago, SFBT said:

I, too, saw the bit about players apologising.
I put myself in their shoes, and also in Carol's and why she shared it.
My manager gets the sack. I/we haven't been doing well on the pitch.
I hold my hands up, accept my part in it, and commit to doing better.
As chair, hearing this shows humility, acceptance of responsibility and a re commitment to the cause.
The players I might be more concerned about are those who say nothing, don't come forward, don't accept responsibility.
I would put money on the players apologising were Legge, Joyce, Brown, Monty, Wozza.
Real, rounded, conscientious people.

 

I share this view. Some people have become absolutely vitriolic about the players recently, many of which have been lauded for months for being excellent professionals.

Apologising the not performing well and their manager getting sacked is standard. Legge apologised on Twitter. Why is it different if they've rang Carol to say the same? Demonstrates a strong relationship, and a genuine regret at how things ended.

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I see that we're still in the new owner honeymoon period where even discussing a radio interview by the owner/Chairwoman is 'disturbing'.

For those of you who've forgotten how it works at Port Vale, here it is:

New Owner 'saves us' from horrible old owner - no criticism or discussion about anything they say or do. Everything they do is wonderful and we must trust in what they say 100% or else you're a nutter despite the fact that if the same words or actions came from the  previous owner, they'd be vilified for it.

Owner has been at the club for a couple of seasons - there's a bump in the road (or many bumps in the road). We're not in the Championship yet, and we've still only got 4000 ST holders. People start to question a few of the decisions being made without being shot down.

Owners have been at the club for 5 years - The cumulative effect of everything not being perfect starts to take its toll on the fanbase, who've become agitated at not having any power. They start to dig into previous financial dealings, relationships within the club, the personal lives of the owners. A particularly poor result or managerial appointment sparks protests outside the ground and stickers to be made. A flag appears saying 'Owner Out'. The Owners family are harassed and abused and have to stop coming to matches for their own safety.

Horrible new owners sell up or put the club into administration. The fans won. The dawning of a new era. Championship in 5 years.

New Owner 'saves us' from horrible old owner. We'll forever be in their debt.

 

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Liked her honesty and I massive thank you for saving the club (obviously) but didn’t like the overall message that once again were letting someone with no experience have a crack at it. We’ve been down this road numerous times and it’s not worked once, infact the complete opposite. The one time we pushed the boat out for a decent manager we got promoted. There’s a difference. 
 

If funds are so tight in covid then Askey should have been given the season. Not happy that Pugh has got this full season, basically airing that it’s just a complete right off and we will just see where we are come the end of the season. 
 

I guarantee if we finish what 12-15th then Pugh will have the job next year probably on a 2 year deal and we won’t progress. We will continue in this circle of just being stuck in this <ovf censored> league. Just stinks off a complete lack of ambition. Again. 

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36 minutes ago, SFBT said:

I, too, saw the bit about players apologising.
I put myself in their shoes, and also in Carol's and why she shared it.
My manager gets the sack. I/we haven't been doing well on the pitch.
I hold my hands up, accept my part in it, and commit to doing better.
As chair, hearing this shows humility, acceptance of responsibility and a re commitment to the cause.
The players I might be more concerned about are those who say nothing, don't come forward, don't accept responsibility.
I would put money on the players apologising were Legge, Joyce, Brown, Monty, Wozza.
Real, rounded, conscientious people.

 

Absolutely bang on. Apologising for poor performance is different to admitting you haven't been trying. The first shows character and the second deserves the sack.

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The above comment emphasies my point. Not saying I agree with it, but it's representative of what I'm reading.

If we'd won some games, said nothing, and then appointed Pugh apparently on the basis of doing a good job and after comparing him to other applicants, then there's less dissent. You'd still get moaners, as every club does (we're no different in this respect).

Now Carol has implied (and you can say it's fine combing her comments, but that's what people are hearing) that it's Pugh's to lose, some will accuse the club of the 'cheap option' or 'lack of ambition' (NOT MY VIEWS). I understand her position about the financial precariousness of this season and maybe the need for sticking what what the club knows.

Edited by Joe B
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19 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

Owner has been at the club for a couple of seasons - there's a bump in the road (or many bumps in the road). We're not in the Championship yet, and we've still only got 4000 ST holders. People start to question a few of the decisions being made without being shot down.

Owners have been at the club for 5 years - The cumulative effect of everything not being perfect starts to take its toll on the fanbase, who've become agitated at not having any power. They start to dig into previous financial dealings, relationships within the club, the personal lives of the owners. A particularly poor result or managerial appointment sparks protests outside the ground and stickers to be made. A flag appears saying 'Owner Out'. The Owners family are harassed and abused and have to stop coming to matches for their own safety.

Horrible new owners sell up or put the club into administration. The fans won. The dawning of a new era. Championship in 5 years.

I don't like this argument at all, as it implies Bratt and Smurthwaite were the targets of unjustified and inevitable backlash at the hands of ungrateful fans. We aren't an ungrateful fanbase as you suggest, more unlucky to be lumbered with two men who with either incompetent, malicious, or both. Just because we had the misfortune of being owned by two bad Chairmen, doesn't mean we're trapped in some time loop of over expecting and then protests. It's such an over-simplification of this football club since 2003.

We were cursed with two awful chairman for twenty years and both were, rightly, removed from position before real damage could be done.

The fans are right to love Carol, but also right to question certain decisions. That's why we're football fans. We all want what we think is best.

To imply that Port Vale's fans are at fault for the last 20 years is disingenuous and overly critical. Smurthwaite and Bratt would have faced removal at any club in the EFL. That doesn't suggest some form of neurotic issue in the fanbase, just that they're willing to fight for their club. The same won't happen to Carol.

We are forever in Carol's debt - it's different to before. Both previous chairmen got the club for buttons after admin, ran us into the ground via incompetence, and left us worse off. Carol could have let us go under but paid up. As a result, she'll always be a hero in my eyes. That doesn't stop me questioning a few decisions she makes, and I think and hope she'd see that as a normal and healthy part of my role as a Port Vale fan. She is more far more intelligent, rational, and decent than anything this club has had in my lifetime. She has, by her own admission, made mistakes, but very few, and she's learning.

Your overall sentiment though, that Port Vale fans are never happy, is a gross misrepresentation of a football club shafted by administrators appointing the wrong men. It's truly incredible how fans can be apportioned blame for removing Norman Smurthwaite, 'printing out stickers'. It implies that Carol is in any way similar to the men we've had at the top in the past.

Edited by Joe B
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10 minutes ago, jjvale_03 said:

I see that we're still in the new owner honeymoon period....

Its back to my previous post about not listening and in this case not reading what has been written. Merely discussing her comments wasn't disturbing, I'm sure that she will get loads wrong. Calling the players 'snakes' is a little over the top though in my opinion. Hoping this time we dont have the usual doom spiral though!!! 

9 minutes ago, PortVale4Life said:

...Just stinks off a complete lack of ambition. Again. 

No it doesn't, just cutting cloth accordingly. Most important thing is stay up, Askey was leading the team, results were awful, she has made a change which has had an initial impact - if that + addition of some new blood to the team keeps us up or even better gets us into the play offs its job done this year. The way things were going there was a serious risk of us getting dragged into a relegation battle.

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3 hours ago, Joe B said:

Carol was quite clear, in my view. I haven't got an agenda. I don't have any massive issues with Pugh, and have offered comments in support of him on the manager thread where he's getting stick. The players shouldn't need Carol saying nice things about him in order to do their jobs.

I'm not asking he is labelled a stop gap, but Carol said she wanted to focus on this season and that a permanent appoint would "distract from that". It should have been 'Danny is in charge for now and will go through the same process as all other 40 credible candidates', which is nowhere near to what she said. 

I have no issue with her being supportive of Pugh but it's very difficult to listen to that interview and not come away thinking this is now Pugh's job to lose. Pugh isn't a stopgap at all, but also shouldn't be at an advantage over the other applicants on the basis that he's lucky enough to be caretaker.

As I've said, it feels this is more a trial run, and not a caretaker job. That's up to Carol, and she is correct in that this is a unique season. I'm merely trying to understand what was, at times, a bit of a cagey interview.

I guess we'll see who the permanent appointment is.

The fact is, loads of people on here have already written off this season.  So why splash out on a more expensive manager rather than see what happens with Pugh?  Bear in mind the current financial situation - there are limits to how much the club can continue to be subsidised by Carol and Kevin.  Let's just see what happens.  And don't say you haven't got an agenda, Joe.  Everyone has one.

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