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McKirdy & Robinson...Goodbye ?


blackdog

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For me success means a player who improves the squad.
If you're judging success purely by scoring stats then Bennett's scoring record is roughly equivalent to Ricky Miller's the previous season (also six goals). Admittedly Miller had other issues (and I'm sure Bennett's wages were less) but in pure footballing/goalscoring terms, there's no improvement.
Yes, a sum of money came in which mitigates the "failure" a bit but arguably Bennett didn't improve anything and indeed that was why he was allowed to leave early.
On your logic rob pope is by far the least efficient of our strikers then?
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6 minutes ago, philmpv said:

On your logic rob pope is by far the least efficient of our strikers then?

Well, he's not an Askey signing.

That aside, he's clearly a successful signing. He's improved the side upfront. He's won promotion. He's been named POTY three times. He has scored over 100 goals.

This season he's been less prolific but that one season is a small proportion of his Vale career. 

He may be a less important presence right now but he's still an important member of the squad who has proven himself at this level and over his time at the club been a big success.

The problem with Tom is he isn't getting younger so there will come a time when it has to end.

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29 minutes ago, robf said:

For me success means a player who improves the squad.

If you're judging success purely by scoring stats then Bennett's scoring record is roughly equivalent to Ricky Miller's the previous season (also six goals). Admittedly Miller had other issues (and I'm sure Bennett's wages were less) but in pure footballing/goalscoring terms, there's no improvement.

Yes, a sum of money came in which mitigates the "failure" a bit but arguably Bennett didn't improve anything and indeed that was why he was allowed to leave early.

Miller scored 4 league goals but had twice as many yellow cards and a red one.  So Bennett was clearly an improvement.  Also, he didn't get confused by all those white lines on the pitch.

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1 hour ago, TJHValiant said:

What blows my mind is that Robinson and McKirdy were almost certainly our “marquee” signings of the summer given their stature and wages. 
 

Two mediocre league 2 players our best and biggest signings...let that sink in. 

Just wondering how you found out what wages they are on.

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32 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Miller scored 4 league goals but had twice as many yellow cards and a red one.  So Bennett was clearly an improvement.  Also, he didn't get confused by all those white lines on the pitch.

In terms of overall goals (I didn't mention League only)

  • Miller got six from 22 starts and 13 sub appearances
  • Bennett got seven from 20 starts and 9 sub appearances.

But as Miller proves, a "successful" signing isn't just about the appearance and goal figures though they do play a part. That was kind of my point - you replied with scoring stats saying Bennett was a "success" - I would argue a successful move is not just about stats.

I actually think John Askey has done a great job in improving other manager's signings. Certainly Joyce, Conlon, Worrall have all improved under him. I also think he's done well to sign the right "characters" and to build a good team spirit. Finally, if Hurst and Rodney are to go by, he can spot the odd promising youngster.

But where I feel he isn't there yet is his overall transfer record.

He's had two transfer windows now. When looking at his signings, I would still argue that (regardless of Richie Bennett being a success or failure) about half of his signings haven't worked.

The transfer record isn't the be all and end all for a manager but for me it is a worry. 

 

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In terms of overall goals (I didn't mention League only)
  • Miller got six from 22 starts and 13 sub appearances
  • Bennett got seven from 20 starts and 9 sub appearances.
But as Miller proves, a "successful" signing isn't just about the appearance and goal figures though they do play a part. That was kind of my point - you replied with scoring stats saying Bennett was a "success" - I would argue a successful move is not just about stats.
I actually think John Askey has done a great job in improving other manager's signings. Certainly Joyce, Conlon, Worrall have all improved under him. I also think he's done well to sign the right "characters" and to build a good team spirit. Finally, if Hurst and Rodney are to go by, he can spot the odd promising youngster.
But where I feel he isn't there yet is his overall transfer record.
He's had two transfer windows now. When looking at his signings, I would still argue that (regardless of Richie Bennett being a success or failure) about half of his signings haven't worked.
The transfer record isn't the be all and end all for a manager but for me it is a worry. 
 
But Rob, you must agree that Vale' s standing within football circles would have played a part in who we could sign and who would be interested in signing.

Relegation, the stigma from the previous owner, the transfer budget, the area itself.
All of these things and a whole lot more would/should be taken into consideration by any player joining any club, let alone ours.

In my opinion only now are we raising our profile and hopefully better players may be more interested.
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31 minutes ago, robf said:

In terms of overall goals (I didn't mention League only)

  • Miller got six from 22 starts and 13 sub appearances
  • Bennett got seven from 20 starts and 9 sub appearances.

But as Miller proves, a "successful" signing isn't just about the appearance and goal figures though they do play a part. That was kind of my point - you replied with scoring stats saying Bennett was a "success" - I would argue a successful move is not just about stats.

I actually think John Askey has done a great job in improving other manager's signings. Certainly Joyce, Conlon, Worrall have all improved under him. I also think he's done well to sign the right "characters" and to build a good team spirit. Finally, if Hurst and Rodney are to go by, he can spot the odd promising youngster.

But where I feel he isn't there yet is his overall transfer record.

He's had two transfer windows now. When looking at his signings, I would still argue that (regardless of Richie Bennett being a success or failure) about half of his signings haven't worked.

The transfer record isn't the be all and end all for a manager but for me it is a worry. 

 

I'd tend to agree with you Rob, maybe it's semantics but I don't think the majority of signings have been any good at all, in fact they've been dross. I think we got 20k for Bennett incidentally and he's in and out at Stockport who didn't want Archer, now at Southport. You do have to kiss a lot of frogs as the saying goes and we seem to be permanently heading for the Reptile house I'm afraid. Let's hope we make the most of this window and get back on track asap.

 

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Indeed.  Bob Delgado springs to mind!

Delgardo had 3 or 4 very good seasons at Chester .... he was just awful for us. It wasn't just a single game he played well in. Tommy Gore was fantastic for Bury and similarly poor for us. It's one of the great imponderables in football why some players can do it for one club then not the next. We spent a lot on Keith Houchin and he never really looked the part, yet he had been fantastic at places like York.

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Delgardo had 3 or 4 very good seasons at Chester .... he was just awful for us. It wasn't just a single game he played well in. Tommy Gore was fantastic for Bury and similarly poor for us. It's one of the great imponderables in football why some players can do it for one club then not the next. We spent a lot on Keith Houchin and he never really looked the part, yet he had been fantastic at places like York.
Tommy Gore.......uuuggghhh, as you say, fantastic for Bury.....awful for us.
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3 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

What blows my mind is that Robinson and McKirdy were almost certainly our “marquee” signings of the summer given their stature and wages. 
 

Two mediocre league 2 players our best and biggest signings...let that sink in. 

McKirdy was not a marquee signing he was a like for like replacement for a 4th choice winger. We offered contracts to a couple of alternatives who turned us down over wages before he signed. 

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3 hours ago, Santa said:

Guthrie was excellent against us in that Good Friday match.

However, I'd be wary of signing a player solely on the strength of how well they play against us.

Bradford didn't sign him because he played well against us, he did look a good player at Stevenage for 18 months. Bradford has become a black hole for strikers, they sign a lot of highly rated players and they all seem to flop. There is a pile of highly rated strikers who have all found it impossible to settle there. Strikers, in particular, do seem to be prone to bombing when they move clubs. Salford seem another club who burn through strikers quickly.

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