McKirdy & Robinson...Goodbye ?

[blackdog]

McKirdy has annoyed me, I don't get involved in criticising individual players for a number of reasons, they maybe playing with an injury, they may have personal problems, they maybe struggling with any kind of off field problems, but in McKirdys case I was pleased when he signed and said so on here, he scored alot of winning goals at Carlisle last season and I wrongly thought he would contribute to our team this season, when it was suggested by WV the day before he signed that he would never play for Port Vale because that was what he told him, the alarm bells started to ring, reading the Carlisile forum despite the fact he was leading scorer, the manager of Carlisle and the vast majority of supporters were glad to see the back of him.

I don't wish the lad any ill will, but he needs to get his act together if he wants to make a career out of football, also I would be interested in who facilitated his move to Vale Park given the lads previous attitude to the game,

[JRC]

1 minute ago, Joe B said:

Again, it seems like we're doing mental gymnastics to excuse poor recruitment.

I personally don't believe that Carol Shanahan or Head of Coaching Development have a bigger say in signings than the manager. 

Is it not more reasonable to assume it's just a misstep in recruitment, ala Whitehead, Mills, Lloyd, Evans, Archer, Maddison, and Kennedy?

We all seemingly want to believe that Port Vale is some sort of soap opera, instead of coming to terms with the idea that maybe our current manager doesn't have the best record when signing players.

All signings are a risk. Man Utd have made some very expensive howlers post Fergerson. Some of those listed were signed because they met the budget. Whitehead is looking a poor signing, although he at least ran around tonight. Mills would be ok in a back 5 but not as a regular rightback in a back 4. Those from last season were signed because we had a reduced budget, had just signed players who did well in the second half of the previous season enhanced contracts and there was little left over.

[Joe B]

Just now, Smallthorne Dog said:

He might have a poor record at Vale when it comes to recruiting quality. But his whole managerial career has been built on signing players with the right attitude.
When he cam into the club he wanted rid of Miller and Whitfield straight away because they didnt posess the right professional approach. Its well documented that he wanted rid of Pope when he failed to heed his warnings over his social media conduct.
Yet Pope didnt go and he signs McKirdy, a player whise disruptive attitude is well known.
So either we believe that Askey has suddenly changed beliefs that he has held for his entire career and has led to his relative success in management so far? Or you have to conclude that there is an other influence involved in the signing of players?

I think McKirdy was a panic signing on the eve of the season when down a winger. He took a punt on a player with talent and it's backfired. The fact he is local and I think his family know Rudge probably made the signing more likely.

Robinson has no history of attitude issues and has been a success at this level elsewhere, playing 80 games in the 2nd tier. Something's gone amiss, maybe in his personal life, or maybe the personalities just clashed/he didn't get the minutes they had agreed on.

Just mistakes, imo.

[Joe B]

2 minutes ago, JRC said:

All signings are a risk. Man Utd have made some very expensive howlers post Fergerson. Some of those listed were signed because they met the budget. Whitehead is looking a poor signing, although he at least ran around tonight. Mills would be ok in a back 5 but not as a regular rightback in a back 4. Those from last season were signed because we had a reduced budget, had just signed players who did well in the second half of the previous season enhanced contracts and there was little left over.

Yeah but Askey's hit rate isn't good. We can make excuses all we want but managers on much smaller budgets are able to have a better return on their signings. We can't keep using the budget as an excuse, as, whether it's been lowered or not, it's still above 17th in the table, and we're only 17th due to signings made pre-Askey.

[JRC]

I suspect Robinson wants regular starts and is sulking because he isn't getting them. But then he hasn't shown enough to deserve a start really.

[toyahw]

Just now, Joe B said:

I think McKirdy was a panic signing on the eve of the season when down a winger.

I agree, but he was on trial for a while. Surely enough to work out if he was a bad un?

[Joe B]

6 minutes ago, toyahw said:

I agree, but he was on trial for a while. Surely enough to work out if he was a bad un?

Even more concerning, then.

Either Askey made a big mistake on character, a core tenet of his managerial style, or the conspiracy theories regarding 'outside influence' on transfers may have some credence (though I doubt it).

However it's dressed up, it's not good!

[JRC]

1 minute ago, Joe B said:

Yeah but Askey's hit rate isn't good. We can make excuses all we want but managers on much smaller budgets are able to have a better return on their signings. We can't keep using the budget as an excuse, as, whether it's been lowered or not, it's still above 17th in the table, and we're only 17th due to signings made pre-Askey.

A lot of the inherited players are on the higher wages. Pope, Legge, Brown, Smith (this season), Worrall and Oyeleke after he resigned are all on above average wages for our squad. Cullen, Amoo and Hurst were all good signings last season. The disasters (in terms of cost in wages) are Robinson, Whitehead and possibly McKirdy, although I suspect the latter isn't on as much as the first 2.

[toyahw]

3 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Even more concerning, then.

 

I have zero inside knowledge. It just looks that way from the outside. I'm more concerned about the players he recruited and still plays who are gash.

[Smallthorne Dog]

Even more concerning, then.
Either Askey made a big mistake on character, a core tenet of his managerial style, or the conspiracy theories regarding 'outside influence' on transfers may have some credence (though I doubt it).
However it's dressed up, it's not good!

So if its just bad signings surely Carol has to sack him for making clueless decisions that have led to us picking up one win in our last 12 games?

She is either being very generous to allow him to then ship those signings out in January after less than 6 months of their contracts and giving him another opportunity to sort out a shambles of his own creating? Or she is aware that someone else on the payroll bears a degree of responsibility for those players being at the club against the managers wishes, and she is biting the bullet accordingly?

[Santa]

It's a bloody mess, that's for sure.

I'd hoped this sort of nonsense would have finished when Norman was sent packing.

 

[Guitar Ray]

4 minutes ago, Smallthorne Dog said:

The whole Askey Out, Askey In situation boils down to this issue if you ask me.
Askey is a manager jnown for building squads that are greater than the sum of their parts. Its all about the right attitude, a good work ethic, versatility and a willingness to sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of the team.
So players like McKirdy and Robinson are the polar opposite of everything Askey stands for and expects in his players.
They were both late additions to the squad after it appeared our summer business was complete. Sowho was responsible for bringing them in?
Askey? If so, then its a complete screw up and its his own fault, and he has to go.
The owners or Frank Sinclair? Maybe this has been an internal battle from the beginning and Askey never wanted either of them (their disruptive attitude has been at the heart of our terrible form) and he has finally won that battle and it has been agreed he can ship them out?
If that is the case, its extremely worrying, in that a) their is an influence greater than the manager who has the final say on transfers, and b) The manager has seemingly allowed player he doesnt want or need to be signed by the club to the detriment of what he js trying to do, and what plainly worked last season.
I'd be inclined to think that Askey didnt want either player in the first instance. I'm not convinced he ever wanted Mitch Clarke back at the club, and it is relatively common knowledge that if he'd have had his way, Popey would have gone i the summer.
If that is the case, he has to be allowed to get rid of the players he wants to get rid of and sign the ones he wants to sign.
Despite all the bad results, something is telling me this isnt all Askey's doing.

 

"their disruptive attitude has been at the heart of our terrible form"  Honestly?  Rank bad defending is down to Robinson and McKirdy?  They may be disruptive, I've no idea, but I'm not buying your suggestion that a couple of clowns in the changing room is behind players simply not marking, tracking back, or failing to clear their lines.  Smith's balls up for the Barrow first goal had nothing to do with Harry McKirdy or Theo Robinson.

Re. your other points, we could look at it another way, and say we need to remember we were then, as we are now, in the midst of this pandemic and the rules that meant for clubs.  Realistically we had to fill the squad.  JA almost certainly missed out on several of his primary targets, probably down to wages.  Also, we almost certainly got messed about by what was being trumpeted as our "marquee" signing, Maynard.  I think we simply ended up with Robinson and McKirdy because we thought they were the best of what was available, and by that point we needed bodies.  The view being that, on paper at least, they were decent back up signings, which I'm sure they will be somewhere where the system/style of play suits.  Nontheless I think we all scratched our heads at these pair.  Signings are always a gamble. 

If Gibbo stayed fit we'd have never have seen Clarke.  In fact if Clarke had've been older we'd have had to look elsewhere. We signed him on a 6 month.  We all know Clarke is a good player at this level, but whatever's happened there affected his form like someone throwing a switch.  Fingers crossed Gibbo can get back up to speed as quickly as possible.

So, whilst you may well be right with your views, there's 2 sides to the coin.  The bottom line though is that JA has to get the best out of the squad.  He certainly hasn't got the best out of Robinson or McKirdy whatever has gone on behind the scenes.

 

[dantheman]

Signings is just a small part of the problem for me. Miss management being the biggest. Our squad contains a few dead ducks that’s for sure but on a whole it should be steady for this league.

Football is not played on paper as the saying goes but that strike force of Robinson, Pope, Cullen and Rodney is the stuff of dreams given the <ovf censored> we have been severed up in recent history yet we are unable to get one of them firing at all. Serious questions should be asked as to what the hell is is going on! 

[toyahw]

14 minutes ago, Santa said:

It's a bloody mess, that's for sure.

I'd hoped this sort of nonsense would have finished when Norman was sent packing.

 

You would have thought so. But this is Vale.  Where nothing seems to go right. Since Rudge got sacked!  And anyone thinking he should now be our saviour. He's getting on now and has done more than his bit for us.

Where do we go from here?  Stay up. Exist to fight again. Not much of an ambition. But so it goes.

[butt lane vale fan]

I bloody hope not, he's injured apparently lol

Expected. Not sure what’s gone on, McKirdy has barely featured. Theo has scored a few considering his low minutes this season but has not worked out. Hopefully get them out quickly and get replacements in. Hurst coming good maybe means we can replace McKirdy with a defender to improve that.

Going to end up with Maynard aren’t we.