Taking the knee.

[Warren]

On 18/12/2020 at 17:30, Joe B said:

Would you not buy a season ticket if the Vale players committed to kneeling before every home game, with maybe one or two raised fists?

I watched Micah Richards documentary on racism. I have appreciated better the nature of the experience particularly on social media. Everyone who goes on social media can expect to be abused and especially on Twitter which is pretty much a platform for personal abuse. I think I can draw a difference now. So taking the knee with no fist pumping is becoming OK with me and especially as it has widespread support. Taking the knee with fist pumping and support of the US version of Black Lives Matters is not OK with me. That is a US monocultural political movement and tied up with all manner of US issues that don't exist in the UK or exist in a very much lesser form that doesn't warrant that response. For example, there aren't 400 million guns in circulation in the UK and the first response of police in the UK isn't to pull out a gun! 

[TylerB]

 

It's absolutely ridiculous. Suppose you can be called a racist for thinking so.

[Iron Curtain]

55 minutes ago, TylerB said:

 

It's absolutely ridiculous. Suppose you can be called a racist for thinking so.

Guess that depends on what you think it’s “absolutely ridiculous” about it.

Its clear there is a still a huge problem with Racism in this country. The players are trying to show solidarity to bring the issue to people’s attention. 

People have got their own reasons why they don’t like it. Some will be racist, some won’t. 

This issue does seem to work people up more than say, disabled lives matter would. 

Why? Who knows!

[Jermaine Holwynn]

1 hour ago, Warren said:

I watched Micah Richards documentary on racism. I have appreciated better the nature of the experience particularly on social media. Everyone who goes on social media can expect to be abused and especially on Twitter which is pretty much a platform for personal abuse. I think I can draw a difference now. So taking the knee with no fist pumping is becoming OK with me and especially as it has widespread support. Taking the knee with fist pumping and support of the US version of Black Lives Matters is not OK with me. That is a US monocultural political movement and tied up with all manner of US issues that don't exist in the UK or exist in a very much lesser form that doesn't warrant that response. For example, there aren't 400 million guns in circulation in the UK and the first response of police in the UK isn't to pull out a gun! 

Just the 8 long winded sentences to justify this then? 

Someone above asked how long this should go on for. 

Answer = as long as there are out of touch, daily mail comment section cretins who predominantly are over 60 with enough time to sit and find a counter argument for not having it -  'as long as it takes', make it a permanent thing for every match as far as I'm concerned. See if any racist sympathiser heads explode from it ALWAYS being done.

I hope I can bring my mixed race 7 year old nephew to the vale and sit in the bycars (when we are allowed) without having to worry about people audibly moaning about a 5 second taking of the knee.

Probably won't happen though because the only evidence I have of sitting in the bycars for the last 10-20 years is that if people want to be racist, they will deffo do it in front of there mates at a football match - way back in the stands, probably half cut whilst giving the steward a big thumbs up.

Saw how people thought about it on the 'wonder of you' page or whatever on facebook. 

Carol if you read this, we are pretty close to being a league 2 Millwall in terms of how backwards some of this fanbase is. It's ageing, it's narrowminded and it's what ultimately makes us a laughing stock, even in league 2. I don't know what you are meant to do as an owner other than pray that there is a new generation of football fans in this city, I personally would not advise my black family a trip down the vale when the season starts.

 

[TylerB]

37 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Guess that depends on what you think it’s “absolutely ridiculous” about it.

Its clear there is a still a huge problem with Racism in this country. The players are trying to show solidarity to bring the issue to people’s attention. 

People have got their own reasons why they don’t like it. Some will be racist, some won’t. 

This issue does seem to work people up more than say, disabled lives matter would. 

Why? Who knows!

For me it's not going to change anything, whether they keep doing it for another 2 weeks or 2 years. I don't have the answer myself to effectively tackle racism of course. But I don't think this taking the knee business actually amounts to anything anyway. Or at the very least the initial impact it might have had has since long gone.

A lot of abuse goes through social media. If racists actually start getting long prison sentences it might at least deter a few,

[Iron Curtain]

20 minutes ago, TylerB said:

For me it's not going to change anything, whether they keep doing it for another 2 weeks or 2 years. I don't have the answer myself to effectively tackle racism of course. But I don't think this taking the knee business actually amounts to anything anyway. Or at the very least the initial impact it might have had has since long gone.

A lot of abuse goes through social media. If racists actually start getting long prison sentences it might at least deter a few,

Does it’s perceived lack of efficacy make it “absolutely ridiculous” though?

Trying to police drugs in our streets will never work... does that mean we should stop doing what we can?

And maybe players letting their fellow black players know they support them is the aim... and that seems to be working. It’s a subset of fans that have strangely turned against them.

And I’m guessing that subset, in the main, don’t disagree with taking the knee because of its lack of results or perception thereof. Something not working doesn’t warrant it being booed does it?

Its hard to really dive down as to what it is about THIS issue that has people unhappy about a show of support.

[Andyregs]

19 minutes ago, TylerB said:

For me it's not going to change anything, whether they keep doing it for another 2 weeks or 2 years. I don't have the answer myself to effectively tackle racism of course. But I don't think this taking the knee business actually amounts to anything anyway. Or at the very least the initial impact it might have had has since long gone.

A lot of abuse goes through social media. If racists actually start getting long prison sentences it might at least deter a few,

Colin kaepernick never played again after first taking the knee, now sportsman around the world are doing it.

Was the world as aware of the social issues as they are now? I’d argue not. 
Id agree that more than just taking the knee has to be done to make change, but plenty has been achieved through protest over the years.

 

[jimbo57]

49 minutes ago, Jermaine Holwynn said:

Just the 8 long winded sentences to justify this then? 

Someone above asked how long this should go on for. 

Answer = as long as there are out of touch, daily mail comment section cretins who predominantly are over 60 with enough time to sit and find a counter argument for not having it -  'as long as it takes', make it a permanent thing for every match as far as I'm concerned. See if any racist sympathiser heads explode from it ALWAYS being done.

I hope I can bring my mixed race 7 year old nephew to the vale and sit in the bycars (when we are allowed) without having to worry about people audibly moaning about a 5 second taking of the knee.

Probably won't happen though because the only evidence I have of sitting in the bycars for the last 10-20 years is that if people want to be racist, they will deffo do it in front of there mates at a football match - way back in the stands, probably half cut whilst giving the steward a big thumbs up.

Saw how people thought about it on the 'wonder of you' page or whatever on facebook. 

Carol if you read this, we are pretty close to being a league 2 Millwall in terms of how backwards some of this fanbase is. It's ageing, it's narrowminded and it's what ultimately makes us a laughing stock, even in league 2. I don't know what you are meant to do as an owner other than pray that there is a new generation of football fans in this city, I personally would not advise my black family a trip down the vale when the season starts.

 

You obviously haven't read the Daily Mail for the last 9 months or so where they've been supporting players players  taking the knee.

And I'm sure the Mail is very upset that you are not one of their millions of readers.

 

[TylerB]

8 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Does it’s perceived lack of efficacy make it “absolutely ridiculous” though?

Trying to police drugs in our streets will never work... does that mean we should stop doing what we can?

And maybe players letting their fellow black players know they support them is the aim... and that seems to be working. It’s a subset of fans that have strangely turned against them.

And I’m guessing that subset, in the main, don’t disagree with taking the knee because of its lack of results or perception thereof. Something not working doesn’t warrant it being booed does it?

Its hard to really dive down as to what it is about THIS issue that has people unhappy about a show of support.

I think it's ridiculous that it's still going on in sport. The initial impact it made, what impact it made, was at least something. But now it just feels like it's just doing it for the sake of it to a degree. I mean how long does it go on for? When it eventually stops will there be some uproar simply because it's something that had gone on for so long?

[Andyregs]

2 minutes ago, TylerB said:

I think it's ridiculous that it's still going on in sport. The initial impact it made, what impact it made, was at least something. But now it just feels like it's just doing it for the sake of it to a degree. I mean how long does it go on for? When it eventually stops will there be some uproar simply because it's something that had gone on for so long?

Maybe wait until the uproar before getting preemptively offended by it.

[Fosse69]

It is symbolic,  players bonding together, something happening on a football does not always amount to much.  If you don`t agree  with it, does it mean that Black lives don`t matter?

[Iron Curtain]

5 minutes ago, TylerB said:

I think it's ridiculous that it's still going on in sport. The initial impact it made, what impact it made, was at least something. But now it just feels like it's just doing it for the sake of it to a degree. I mean how long does it go on for? When it eventually stops will there be some uproar simply because it's something that had gone on for so long?

As long as players feel like they would like to support their fellow professionals I guess.

The question of how long it goes on for us very different to the one on why a subset of fans feel the need to boo the act. 

The usual course of action when I see something that I don’t think is working or has gone on too long would be to ignore it for the 6 seconds it goes in for in the acknowledgement the players doing it must have their reasons.

Why do you think this issue has such a strong reaction? Why the booing from some people? 

Do you think there would be booing for Disabled lives matter of the players did an action for them before the match?

[ELDERBEZZA]

Maybe the time is approaching where we can dedicate a BLM day, annually, to stop any more controversy with the issue.It would get universal support Im sure.

[WV]

21 minutes ago, ELDERBEZZA said:

Maybe the time is approaching where we can dedicate a BLM day, annually, to stop any more controversy with the issue.It would get universal support Im sure.

One day is not enough Bezza

[WV]

On 18/12/2020 at 17:23, Warren said:

The knee protesting is a political protest. I disagree with the FA and Premier League et al. Black Lives Matters is a mono cultural USA based political movement. That is what it says on the website. So fans buy tickets to watch football games. Taking the knee is a service they have not paid for. Like many other fans I don't want to see this protest and I don't want to be expected to support it.

I will support the Kick it Out movement because that is multi cultural and politically non partisan. The players are employees of a football club. Therefore if the players are permitted or encouraged to protest this must be clear at the point of sale of tickets. A secondary service of political protest is being offered for sale. Fans who don't like that can then decline to buy tickets and attend games. I think come next season it is important Port Vale makes its position clear before season ticket sales go ahead. 

Can I buy a season ticket just for the knee? Or do I have to get 2 one for the knee one for football? Will there be an ifollow for the knee? Like an iKneel subscription perhaps. Let me guess wazza you are a middle aged to retirement age white male by any chance?