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Taking the knee.


shian

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1 hour ago, Andyregs said:

But they know what it means and choose to ignore it. You admitted that. So it doesn’t need changing as they already know. You also presume that the message is for just people who argue in bad faith. 

A number of years ago the government introduced legislation called ‘every child matters’. After some high profile child abuse cases. Interestingly I never heard one person get angry and argue it should be ‘every life matters’. Because it was bleeding obvious what the statement means. Maybe the government should have changed it to ‘every person matters’ or maybe that would defeat the whole point of the message.

 

 

Perhaps because the legislation was directed at one age group and restrictive circumstances?

I wonder why it wasn't called black children matter?

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24 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

I just don’t think an anti racist movement should pander to racists.

It only makes it harder to argue to the people who purposely choose to misinterpret it. Why change a message to argue with a group who know what the actual message is but choose to pretend not to. 
 

“Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”

So if you prefer the movement to be called another name, for whatever reason, you are a racist?

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7 minutes ago, geosname said:

Perhaps because the legislation was directed at one age group and restrictive circumstances?

I wonder why it wasn't called black children matter?

But isn’t that ageist? Doesn’t that mean that one age group is being prioritised ahead of another? In fact I’ve also got issues with age concern charities. Why aren’t they concerned about me? That’s ageist too. 

4 minutes ago, geosname said:

So if you prefer the movement to be called another name, for whatever reason, you are a racist?

That’s not what I said but a good example of someone purposely trying to miss the point. 
I said if a racist knows What it means and purposely misinterprets it because they don’t like what the message actually means (that a black life matters just as much as a white life) then they are racist. 

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1 hour ago, Andyregs said:

But isn’t that ageist? Doesn’t that mean that one age group is being prioritised ahead of another? In fact I’ve also got issues with age concern charities. Why aren’t they concerned about me? That’s ageist too. 

That’s not what I said but a good example of someone purposely trying to miss the point. 
I said if a racist knows What it means and purposely misinterprets it because they don’t like what the message actually means (that a black life matters just as much as a white life) then they are racist. 

If a racist knows.................. then they are racist?

I would assume whatever a racist knows is irrelevant because they are already racist.

I doubt it's possible to make child abuse laws to prevent child abuse on OAPs or anyone who isn't a child. It's designed to protect all children in an age range.... similar to the state pension only pays to people over a certain age determined by the government.

It is illegal to engage in sexual activity with a child..... is that ageist? Should we prevent all ages from engaging in sexual activity or scrap the age limit completely? Are child protection laws a detriment to anyone in society?....... except abusers?

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Probably because three word slogans are generally considered to be effective.

Not much point arguing against people who see subtext where there isn't any, or who willingly misinterpret something to pretend that they do, or are willing to derail a conversation about race and turn it into an argument about semantics.

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30 minutes ago, Santa said:

Probably because three word slogans are generally considered to be effective.

Not much point arguing against people who see subtext where there isn't any, or who willingly misinterpret something to pretend that they do, or are willing to derail a conversation about race and turn it into an argument about semantics.

Then don't argue just capitulate and agree, like you expect others to do.

Is a 3 word slogan of "white lives matter" racist? Acceptable? 

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Probably because three word slogans are generally considered to be effective.
Not much point arguing against people who see subtext where there isn't any, or who willingly misinterpret something to pretend that they do, or are willing to derail a conversation about race and turn it into an argument about semantics.


It's not about semantics at all, just the point that getting your message across in the most effective and attractive way. If you wanted to declare your love for your fiancee, Richard, in a public display, you would say 'I love Richard', not 'I love Dick'. Adding 'too' to BLM simply caters for all potential palates and leaves no room for argument or misrepresentation.
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4 hours ago, geosname said:

If a racist knows.................. then they are racist?

I would assume whatever a racist knows is irrelevant because they are already racist.

Bingo! 

3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

No.  Stubbornness versus stubbornness.  People are stubbornly digging in on the blm matter more and the other side is digging in not using "too".

We assume that those digging in about more are overtly racist.  Therefore it is reasonable that those digging in about the use of the word "too" are being overtly woke.

The end result is that the debate stagnates and goes nowhere.  One side is deliberately missing the point, the other side doesn't see why they should change the wording.

Its also a leap to assume racism in all cases.

Whats coming across is the I am better than them attitude.  Its like a teacher who responds to a student not understanding something by repeating it over and over in exactly the same way as they did originally because they don't believe the student is being genuine.  Surely the answer is, to take away the possibility for them to use the excuse?

Thats how the enlightened teach the ignorant, not by just pouring scorn on them and turning your nose up.

No, we just don’t let racists dictate the movement. And why does this ‘confusion’ only exist with regards to racial equality movements? 
Do you think this picture confuses people? Makes them angry?

 

2 hours ago, geosname said:

What I find difficult to understand is....

If black lives matter means black lives matter too and your support could increase significantly if you included the word "too"...... why wouldn't you?

You actually believe those people who get angry at someone believing a black life matters, will suddenly get on board with black lives matters too. The movement isn’t going to bring those people on board. The aim is to make their backwards mind set irrelevant. 

370A5EE3-B2F5-490B-8B74-944F32A15280.jpeg

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The Black Lives Matter slogan states the obvious. Of course, everybody's life on the planet matters. Personally, I wouldn't take the knee to Black Lives Matter/White Lives Matter/Heterosexual Lives Matter/Gay Lives Matter/Vale Fans Lives Matter/My Family Lives Matter etc.

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11 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Its political.  Like it or not.  The poppy has also been hijacked by the right wing which is why I dont wear one anymore.  I donate and I remember, as dont need to wear a poppy to pay respects.

You're actually allowing it to be hijacked.  Wear it, WITH PRIDE,  then you are effectively taking it back from the "right wing" or whoever.  The vast majority know what the poppy stands for, those individuals who gave their lives.  Don't be taken in by the media and their BS on this one.

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3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

It seems that not conceding anything to the opposition no matter how much it might benefit the situation is more important than the cause itself.  I think for some of you, its about being superior which is ironic really.

Not conceding to racists is the cause.

11 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Its political.  Like it or not.  The poppy has also been hijacked by the right wing which is why I dont wear one anymore.  I donate and I remember, as dont need to wear a poppy to pay respects.

Is this what conceding to the opposition looks like? 

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