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Taking the knee.


shian

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1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

 

Freedom of choice at the end of the day.

Unless you boo something you disagree with?

People have the choice to do whatever they choose, take the knee, boo, sing the national anthem, turn their backs, walk out or anything else.  They can even choose to do something illegal if they don't mind paying the consequence of that action.

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1 hour ago, Andyregs said:

Hard to disagree. 
i suppose it could be argued that taking the knee is relevant because there are still people who would boo such a thing. If we were in a world where that didn’t happen, it would likely not be needed. So those that boo the knee and  don’t want to see it, actually make it necessary for it to happen. 

Absolutely.  Sadly it will always be relevant, certain individuals in society will always see ethnicity as an issue.

To add some balance, it’s clear that there’s no comparison between our problems with race in the UK compared to those in parts of the US, where this protest originated.  Whilst we’ll never be perfect in this regard, the strides that have been made here since say the 60’s or 70’s are massive, which has got to be a good thing.

If I were to be brutally honest, this protest will have its time in the sun, will accelerate some change, but ultimately fizzle out, leaving the underlying issues unresolved.

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11 minutes ago, geosname said:

Unless you boo something you disagree with?

People have the choice to do whatever they choose, take the knee, boo, sing the national anthem, turn their backs, walk out or anything else.  They can even choose to do something illegal if they don't mind paying the consequence of that action.

True, but in this case, a few moments at the start of a game, is it beyond the bounds of reason to keep ones council?  I’d suggest those individuals could practice tolerance for what’s literally a couple of seconds.  Just look away if they’re that bothered.

I’d add that personally I take the old fashioned, perhaps naive, view that politics should be kept out of sport, but here we are.

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14 minutes ago, geosname said:

Unless you boo something you disagree with?

People have the choice to do whatever they choose, take the knee, boo, sing the national anthem, turn their backs, walk out or anything else.  They can even choose to do something illegal if they don't mind paying the consequence of that action.

That’s the part a lot of people miss when the hang on about freedom of speech. You do have freedom of speech but that doesn’t mean you have freedom from the consequences of your words. If that was the case, the we wouldn’t have libel or slander laws. People seem to think consequences mean it’s an attack on their freedoms. 

3 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Absolutely.  Sadly it will always be relevant, certain individuals in society will always see ethnicity as an issue.

To add some balance, it’s clear that there’s no comparison between our problems with race in the UK compared to those in parts of the US, where this protest originated.  Whilst we’ll never be perfect in this regard, the strides that have been made here since say the 60’s or 70’s are massive, which has got to be a good thing.

If I were to be brutally honest, this protest will have its time in the sun, will accelerate some change, but ultimately fizzle out, leaving the underlying issues unresolved.

Agreed, but I’d argue that just because elsewhere is worse doesn’t mean you take your foot off the peddle when looking the improve. It’s not a race to the bottom. I haven’t lived as a person of colour, so I’ll leave the judgement of whether things are ‘good enough’ to them. However, as a white guy with a beard, I’ve been racially abused twice in my life for being ‘one of bin ladens boys’, so I’d hazard a guess that racism is a common occurrence when knuckle draggers like that are around.

Will it fizzle out? Superficially it may, but it will also empower a lot of young black people to perhaps not accept ‘good enough’. There are ups and downs, but generally we become more civilised each generation, and things do get better. Certain people and movements either speed up or slow down the process. And history is never kind in the judgement of those who stand against it.

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15 hours ago, inner sanctum said:

Are you so uneducated that you only think racism is directed at black people?

The irony. Mate you just tried to use a tiger as a point of an argument and judging by other people replies I'm not the only one who thinks you're a gammon. 

Imagine saying all lives matter to one of our players. You wouldn't get very far 

Put down the sun newspaper and stop believing everything Nigel Farage tells you.

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2 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

True, but in this case, a few moments at the start of a game, is it beyond the bounds of reason to keep ones council?  I’d suggest those individuals could practice tolerance for what’s literally a couple of seconds.  Just look away if they’re that bothered.

I’d add that personally I take the old fashioned, perhaps naive, view that politics should be kept out of sport, but here we are.

I agree with the last paragraph 100%

Perhaps people boo to make that point, I couldn't say, I haven't asked.

As I stated earlier I would like to see advertising and sponsorship removed too..... along with bad owners. Just my personal view.

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4 minutes ago, geosname said:

I agree with the last paragraph 100%

Perhaps people boo to make that point, I couldn't say, I haven't asked.

As I stated earlier I would like to see advertising and sponsorship removed too..... along with bad owners. Just my personal view.

So you’d be happy to make up the difference with increased entry prices?

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Taking the knee is upsetting a lot of supporters ,me I'm not bothered as such we have a lot of black footballers who play for us and generally over the years many have served us well so I think up and down the country my opinion is it may be causing unrest at many clubs around the players who do not agree with it and have no wish to take the knee but then if they moan about it around the training ground  they would be deemed as racist which I'm sure they are not .

So to me it is damaging I know they are getting there point across about equality but most white folk are not white supremacists. 

I work with many nationals we go work we do our jobs then we go home ,we do not employ a slave to do our work why punish modern society because of past society. 

I would not boo if when we go back the matches folk did after all I want Legge Montano and all the other coloured players do the business for Port Vale football club ,what would booing do it would demotivate the better players at our club in my opinion so surely you wouldn't do it 

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7 hours ago, connor hackett said:
9 hours ago, Joe B said:
This fanbase. Sick of it.
Read some books.
 

Most arrogant post ever. Do all people who read books regularly have a superior opinions to everyone else? Maybe you should provide a booklist for people so they can share your views Joe. Personally I'm fully behind any players that want to take a knee, but if some people are against it, thats their right to say so. But reading books doesn't make anybodies options more valid, they vary widely in content.

Did type a massive answer out but then realised it was me defending the claim that 'people should read books' and that 'people should research and provide evidence for their argument and not trot out cliches they've read in the paper that have no basis in fact'.

Calling the knee 'Marxist' displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both the symbol itself and Marxism as a political/economic/social theory. The person behind it clearly has no idea what Marxism is, or how it could be tenuously linked to BLM (one tweet years ago from a co-founder that can't, in any way, be thought to be representative of the entire group who believe in the concept of Black Lives Matter, and has a strong whiff of cancel culture about it). 

My plea was for people to please read about Marxism/the issues at hand before they deploy such an obviously untrue statement. 

Arrogant, I know. 

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I get I can be overly combative on here but unfortunately I don't see the point on treading lightly around the subject. I have my view, I'm going to put it forward as stridently as possible, and I'd expect others to do likewise. Boring otherwise. We can sit here all day in deference to our diametrically opposed views.

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I get I can be overly combative on here but unfortunately I don't see the point on treading lightly around the subject. I have my view, I'm going to put it forward as stridently as possible, and I'd expect others to do likewise. Boring otherwise. We can sit here all day in deference to our diametrically opposed views.
Fair play Joe, your opinions or how how you defend them wasnt an issue
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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

I get I can be overly combative on here but unfortunately I don't see the point on treading lightly around the subject. I have my view, I'm going to put it forward as stridently as possible, and I'd expect others to do likewise. Boring otherwise. We can sit here all day in deference to our diametrically opposed views.

I actually envy your assertiveness Joe. Mostly I'm in agreement with your posts, occasionally I disagree. Either way I enjoy reading them. I don't write too many opinions on OVF as I have Norfolk Enclue regarding the various subjects raised. As thick as pig poo if you will. However if you find anything that I post that you're contrary to, there'll be no need to be " overly combative" with me, especially after having supported the Vale for over 50 years, my nerves are shot to ribbons.  

 

UTV

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