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Match Thread: Stevenage v Port Vale


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Only at Port Vale football club can a manager lose 5 games on the trot in the league and also be knocked out of the FA Cup against a none league team and still be in a job. Performances are abysmal, some of the worst there's been in donkeys years which is some achievement when you consider we've had the likes of Glover, Gannon and Aspin.

We have to remember that if Askey is sacked ultimately he loses his job for the time being, and that's unfortunate and not someone you would wish upon anyone. But for the sake of the club and this season not just quickly becoming a write off, something needs to be done now. Not in a few weeks time. 

Edited by TylerB

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Wtf is wrong with people? Carol and Kevin paid many times over the odds to save this club.  They have financed it through Covid, done tremendous community work in the name of the club and have be

Don't talk rubbish, Tyler.  It's just that I'm considerably older than most of you lot and so I've seen all this before.  That's why I don't think we're going to win the league every time we get three

Tonight was a culmination of several weeks. We're just, fundamentally, not a playoff side. Yes, we had suspensions and absences. Stevenage had won 4 in 49 before tonight, and 1 so far this s

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The question boils down to this; does Carol feel John Askey is going to get us into the top 7? 

If the answer is no, is she content to abandon any pretence of success this season (despite promising we "aren't doing 8th again"), let it play out, and go again in the summer?

Financial pressures will dictate things. There is a growing body of evidence to suggest the answer to the first question is 'no'.

I'm well and truly bored of being a bad football club, having been that way for the vast majority of my life.

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7 minutes ago, Joe B said:

The question boils down to this; does Carol feel John Askey is going to get us into the top 7? 

If the answer is no, is she content to abandon any pretence of success this season (despite promising we "aren't doing 8th again"), let it play out, and go again in the summer?

Financial pressures will dictate things. There is a growing body of evidence to suggest the answer to the first question is 'no'.

I'm well and truly bored of being a bad football club, having been that way for the vast majority of my life.

For the first time in a long time we are a shining example of a football club.  However, the team is currently under preforming.

Easy to get those things mixed up but I think Carol has earned enough respect for us to distinguish between those things properly, dont you?

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The biggest issue was recruitment this summer.

Last game of last season, you could say our best 11 was Brown; Gibbons, Legge, Smith, Clarke; Joyce, Burgess, Conlon; Amoo, Pope, Worrall?

That hasn't changed at all this season.

What should have happened in the summer is 2-3 FIRST TEAMERS should have been signed to strengthen. This would then push some of last season's 1st 11 down the pecking order but improve the 1st team and improve the squad.

Askey aimed the bar way too low which he does with most of his signings.

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14 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

The biggest issue was recruitment this summer.

Last game of last season, you could say our best 11 was Brown; Gibbons, Legge, Smith, Clarke; Joyce, Burgess, Conlon; Amoo, Pope, Worrall?

That hasn't changed at all this season.

What should have happened in the summer is 2-3 FIRST TEAMERS should have been signed to strengthen. This would then push some of last season's 1st 11 down the pecking order but improve the 1st team and improve the squad.

Askey aimed the bar way too low which he does with most of his signings.

Even worse, I think you could argue that our best 11 contains 10 players that Askey inherited;

Brown

Gibbons Legge Smith Clark

Oyeleke Joyce Conlon

Amoo Pope Worrall

Add this to the spine of that team (Brown, Legge, Joyce, Pope) being 35, 35, 33, and 35 respectively, and you've got a problem. Furthermore, we're not exactly witnessing a flurry of young lads knocking on the door of the first team. The squad is getting older, and no one has been replaced for 2 years. Even this summer, only two singings were under 28, and 3 were 30 or above. We're looking at a serious rebuild in the next couple of years as the spine of the team has been allowed to age without any competition/replacements being brought in.

I'm not saying we operate on a Brentford level, but good teams plan ahead; they see that, for example, the core of our squad is either declining, about to decline, or are already finished, and moves are made to prepare us for that inevitability. Askey hasn't; he's allowed a top-half/playoff pushing League 2 side to age and signed mid-table squad fodder to make the bench look nice.

Sides, eventually, run out of steam; key players get old and regress, the ideas and setup become stale. You have to invigorate the squad with fresh, key additions. Askey has, unequivocally, failed to do this for his entire tenure, with only Amoo an example of a 'good' signing and Burgess a reasonable one. I'd struggle to say any of the summer signings are good enough to win promotion from this league.

We simply needed to go up this year. It's an old squad. Legge has perhaps already demonstrated he can't play every minute anymore; Pope isn't the player he once was; we can't continue to lean on Luke Joyce and Scott Brown. If we don't, we're looking at a rebuild, an overhaul of the playing staff and the growing pains that will bring, and more time confined to this turgid league.

Edited by Joe B
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I could begin to understand this call for JA's head if Vale were getting thumped every game and playing poorly but that's not the case.
Yep we've lost the last 5 games but all by a single goal but we were in all those games right to the end. Granted tonight's performance wasn't good but in the others refereeing decisions or extra time goals or an inability to put the ball in the net cost Vale dear, not poor performances.
Blind faith loyalty from some fans surely should not now mask the ever growing reality that we are in for yet another disappointing season.
The many years a substantial lot of us have experienced supporting Vale have hardened us to expecting so many ups and downs, false horizons, shattered dreams and so on.
It's a new era now though that should have commenced an upturn in Vale's exploits on the field. With our fantastic new Owners laying the foundations for a hopefully successful and progressive time in our history it's increasingly obvious that we have yet to match the Owners targets and expectations or are we likely to with the current squad and manager?
Many of us have sat on the fence regarding Askey. It's clear a horde of fans are now at the end of their tether and are joining the momentum for change.
Askey's relaxed, one dimensional, predictable aura has penetrated the squad.No one seems capable of either being motivated or willing to carry out his tactics or methods on the pitch. I sit in Lorne Street and over his tenure remarked in posts that he actually just remains static on the by line, motionless and showing no emotion or enthusiasm to get across any type of instructions or encouragement to the players during a game. This spills out in his post match interviews too and it's certain that he simply cannot change. His inept tactical ability, strange selections and inability to generate any kind of genuine belief to fans adds to my submission that he is out of his depth.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I agree.But it's now reached the stage where I'm told by several other long standing fans in Lorne Street that they will not be renewing their season tickets if Askey stays. That is a stark reality of our situation- Carol has to weigh up future prospects of attracting fans to generate funds to keep the Club alive against another period of mediocrity and dwindling fan base.
I respect Carol. As a successful business Lady she will know what/ when to do something. All I ask is that she , as a fellow fan, feels the same hurt and is able to ensure Vale have a future, a future of progression and success. My gut reaction is that her ambitions and demands for PVFC have to consider a change in management. To leave the decision any longer will in all probability (due to Askey's ability in remaining stereotypical) see Vale disappear yet again into mediocrity and mid table frustration. UTV.
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I think we can turn this around. I really hate that if someone looses a few games and the team play so badly you sack the manager - but improvements are really needed from the players and the manager.

- We need to stop conceeding late goals regularly
- We need to have more shots and play more attacking football

- We need to win some <ovf censored> football matches.

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1 minute ago, Emile said:

I think we can turn this around. I really hate that if someone looses a few games and the team play so badly you sack the manager - but improvements are really needed from the players and the manager.

- We need to stop conceeding late goals regularly
- We need to have more shots and play more attacking football

- We need to win some <ovf censored> football matches.

Everyone knows that. Can the players we have achieve it.   NO !

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This isn’t a recent thing JAs tactical knowledge was highlighted last season when we couldn’t beat teams at the bottom which resulted in drawing so many home games to poor teams. You can’t take last seasons good results away from him and the team, but his tactical nouse was there for all to see, highlighted at Macclesfield. 
He won’t walk even though he’s had a nice wedge from Macc, which he is fully entitled to as he signed a contract and he won’t walk away from us, without a payment, which he is entitled to. Perhaps retain him at the club and promote Frank Sinclair, who has played in the EPL and hopefully will have contacts to bring in loan players either in Jan or at the end of the season.

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1 hour ago, CambridgeDon said:

Yes, when you recruit and pack your midfield with players who have so few goals in them, it's no wonder we get so few shots on or off target. Only Amoo, Worrall, Montano and - dare I say it - McKirdy have any serious record of scoring. Something has to change or it will be our undoing.

Thats our problem C D

Yes Amoo, Worrall, Montano are the three to pick from the start [ Montano full back maybe ] but their goal record i would guess would be  x6   x4   x4   @ season maximum [ not their best ever but on average ] Add Conlan  x 4  Burgess  x  2  Joyce  x 1 and we have absolutely no goals in our team. That is probably everyones best pick of our squad and leaves you one striker needing to score x 25 at least.

Our better looking players cannot score enough goals. Any player replacing them will offer no more.

Love the attitude  and work rate of Worrall but he has never been a prolific goal scorer and yes he is number one on team sheet for a wide midfield player. He is not a winger, he does create chances.

Amoo has great pace but does not create the number of chances that Worrall does and never gets close enough to goal to score more goals. He is not a goal scorer who looks for goals.

As said previously on here, we needed to improve on these players and yet we have brought in players who will cover at best.

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11 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

This isn’t a recent thing JAs tactical knowledge was highlighted last season when we couldn’t beat teams at the bottom which resulted in drawing so many home games to poor teams. You can’t take last seasons good results away from him and the team, but his tactical nouse was there for all to see, highlighted at Macclesfield. 
He won’t walk even though he’s had a nice wedge from Macc, which he is fully entitled to as he signed a contract and he won’t walk away from us, without a payment, which he is entitled to. Perhaps retain him at the club and promote Frank Sinclair, who has played in the EPL and hopefully will have contacts to bring in loan players either in Jan or at the end of the season.

If we do replace JA - and I'm still reserving judgement on that until Saturday - the first thing we would need to do is to appoint someone with league management experience and a track record of success. As much as I respect former successful players like Pugh and Sinclair, or even potential playing candidates like Pope, the last thing we need is a rookie manager trying to cut his teeth on the Vale. We've plenty of previous on this and it's a mistake we shouldn't be repeating.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

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1 minute ago, CambridgeDon said:

If we do replace JA - and I'm still reserving judgement on that until Saturday - the first thing we would need to do is to appoint someone with league management experience and a track record of success. As much as I respect former successful players like Pugh and Sinclair, or even potential playing candidates like Pope, the last thing we need is a rookie manager trying to cut his teeth on the Vale. We've plenty of previous on this and it's a mistake we shouldn't be repeating.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

I too reserved judgement. Mine was last night and i reserved it until the second half began. It was awful. Askey had to get a reaction from those players and there was nothing. Forget the two shots we had last 10 minutes, there was nothing. Very poor and Askey has to be held responsible for not getting the response.

For the first half its the players who deserved the criticism. They were awful and they had everything to prove.

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If we do replace JA - and I'm still reserving judgement on that until Saturday - the first thing we would need to do is to appoint someone with league management experience and a track record of success. As much as I respect former successful players like Pugh and Sinclair, or even potential playing candidates like Pope, the last thing we need is a rookie manager trying to cut his teeth on the Vale. We've plenty of previous on this and it's a mistake we shouldn't be repeating.
Out of the frying pan into the fire.
 
Experience only means that you should have learned from your mistakes. It's not a guarantee of success. Every single experienced manager will have a failure for every success.

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The frustration for me is during the close season I thought the signings we brought in were by and large an improvement on last season, two leading scorers from clubs in our division and better cover in goal, I thought we had covered all basis and by small but incremental changes we were improving on the pitch, as well as off it, especially when I think how we finished last campaign.

The reality is, our strongest side seems to be the same side that finished the last campaign.

 They say it's the expectation that kills you..............................................That's certainly true in my case.

 

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15 minutes ago, blackdog said:

The frustration for me is during the close season I thought the signings we brought in were by and large an improvement on last season, two leading scorers from clubs in our division and better cover in goal, I thought we had covered all basis and by small but incremental changes we were improving on the pitch, as well as off it, especially when I think how we finished last campaign.

The reality is, our strongest side seems to be the same side that finished the last campaign.

 They say it's the expectation that kills you..............................................That's certainly true in my case.

 

The scorers will be reliant on how the team is setup and the chances available, also Rodney is a development signing.  The cover in goal appears to be adequate and younger.  The lack of goals has not changed and is disappointing.

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

I think we can turn this around. I really hate that if someone looses a few games and the team play so badly you sack the manager - but improvements are really needed from the players and the manager.

- We need to stop conceeding late goals regularly
- We need to have more shots and play more attacking football

- We need to win some <ovf censored> football matches.

You'll be thinking the same thing in 5 games time when very little has actually changed, no doubt.

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53 minutes ago, philmpv said:
1 hour ago, CambridgeDon said:
If we do replace JA - and I'm still reserving judgement on that until Saturday - the first thing we would need to do is to appoint someone with league management experience and a track record of success. As much as I respect former successful players like Pugh and Sinclair, or even potential playing candidates like Pope, the last thing we need is a rookie manager trying to cut his teeth on the Vale. We've plenty of previous on this and it's a mistake we shouldn't be repeating.
Out of the frying pan into the fire.
 

Experience only means that you should have learned from your mistakes. It's not a guarantee of success. Every single experienced manager will have a failure for every success.

Yes, I agree - but it's much less of a risk than going with someone who has absolutely no experience of managing a football league side. The last time we tried this was with the hapless Michael Brown - and I'm still in trauma - and previous to that Rebeiro who had no track record of any sort in the EFL.

If we try that again, it will show that we never learn from our mistakes!

 

PS how is that lovely dog of yours? Not too bad after last night I hope! Definitely something to be said for a canine view of the world 🙂

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I listened to the first half and we had no plan to get the ball into their half and score... as has been said the majority of our players are from the winning side when the season ended, till these last 4 games we were good, even pushing for 5 straight wins. So whats happened?  is there unrest in the squad?, and wheres Pope he hasn't even been on the bench these last 2 games, ok he could not play a full match but a half time sub to either hold the lead or to get something out of a game...

    Since the Kings Lynn match i haven't the buzz, not looking forward to sats match either.

 

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