Match Thread: Stevenage v Port Vale

[TJHValiant]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

. Askey hasn't; he's allowed a top-half/playoff pushing League 2 side to age and signed mid-table squad fodder to make the bench. 

 

True, but I would say in Askey’s defense that he made it such a squad when it gelled only late last season. 
 

Before that this was not a top half squad. It was relegation material under Aspin and hauled to mid table by Askey. 
 

His mistake was signing poorly in the summer with more mediocrity to join the existing group. 
 

I said it at the time. Just 1 proven quality player such as Maynard would have been enough. Not just to improve the team but raise standards and belief. 

[philmpv]

I get your point but am just trying to make the point, to the loudest few on here, that changing the manager isn't going to magically transform our fortunes. I, personally, am a great advocate of continuity and patience. That's not to say that there won't come a time when JA has to go, it's just not now for me and, indeed, may cause more harm than it solves (particularly mid season, when any new manager has to work with the same players, January is not the time to buy and we have yet another rebuilding job in the summmer). I will give JA until the end of the season. After what he achieved last season and up to 4 games ago this season, I think he deserves that at least. Carol being carol, I think he will get that. I'm as unhappy as anybody with the last few games, but have we really deteriorated that much to say this team and JA have lost it?

Ps. Dogs fine. Having a kip at the moment

Yes, I agree - but it's much less of a risk than going with someone who has absolutely no experience of managing a football league side. The last time we tried this was with the hapless Michael Brown - and I'm still in trauma - and previous to that Rebeiro who had no track record of any sort in the EFL.
If we try that again, it will show that we never learn from our mistakes!
 
PS how is that lovely dog of yours? Not too bad after last night I hope! Definitely something to be said for a canine view of the world 

[Playa Amodores]

1 hour ago, CambridgeDon said:

If we do replace JA - and I'm still reserving judgement on that until Saturday - the first thing we would need to do is to appoint someone with league management experience and a track record of success. As much as I respect former successful players like Pugh and Sinclair, or even potential playing candidates like Pope, the last thing we need is a rookie manager trying to cut his teeth on the Vale. We've plenty of previous on this and it's a mistake we shouldn't be repeating.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

I was looking at this purely from a financial angle, as we can’t afford anyone with league experience once we’d paid off JA and his entourage. The only way we wouldn’t have to pay everyone off would be to promote within. 
Sounds to me from a financial point that JA stays. If it’s the only way we can survive then we’re going to have to grit our teeth and accept the pain. We’re approximately a third of the way through the season with 19 pts. I believe that 46 points would keep us up which equates to 9 wins from the remaining 32 games. I know it’s hard to see that at the moment especially with our current form, it is very achievable.

I want the form to change ASAP and by whatever means, but we have to be sensible and the existence of PVFC is paramount. Does JA know his best 11 and I don’t think he does. 

[windsorvale4ever]

Our first shot on target against a team that's hadn't won in 2 months was after 81 minutes that's shocking take a win against a bunch of kids away we've 5 games 4 league and the FA cup and we are looking toothless upfront and poor in defence our play is so slow and predictable even teams like Stevenage look sharper and quicker than us

[PortVale4Life]

Don’t understand why he’s not gone yet. 

Shrewsbury have sacked their manager... 

5 losses in a row. One to a pub team. Two to sides 2nd bottom. Only Southend have lost more games than us. Stevenages 3rd won in 35 games ish. 

Disgraceful signings. Basically our whole 11 was signed by aspin or here before askey. Alls askey has done is go to Macclesfield and sign players not good enough from them. Embarrassing. We did it last year and we’ve done it again. Not one good signing this time. Not one signing has improved us. The signing of Robinson is an absalute joke. He was disgraceful last time and he’s just as bad now. Waste of space. Just get rid. 

Negative team selections and tactics. We pass pass pass then hoof it up top to a striker such as Cullen who will have no chance when we play hoof ball. Lost to dire sides all season. Games we have won haven’t been convincing. Has there been a game other than Southend who are gone, in which we have actually dominated and comfortably won? 

Subs. Attrocious. Pointless picking a bench if you don’t use them. Last night another example of this. 

I really can’t understand how some are saying he deserves longer or we’ve been unlucky. 

Weve been dire. Last night was as bad as I’ve seen port vale play. When you consider the level we’re at and the opposition who if not for macc going bump we’re relegated to non league - is nothing short of embarrassing. 

Get him gone ASAP. So a new manager has time to see what’s what and change it in the window. 

We won’t though. We will stand by askey and finishing probably around where we are now 14th/15th and some will accept that on here as we seem to be a club that just accepts this crap year after year. 

Get someone in with a bit of passion and some actual contacts in the transfer market. 

The club has leaped forwards off the pitch but backwards on it 

[osprey]

The last few pages are like deja vu

Just insert any of Glover / Aspin / Brown / Bruno etc or even at times Adam’s for Askey

Same old arguments

Some things never change as a Vale fan

[darren1810]

40 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I listened to the first half and we had no plan to get the ball into their half and score... as has been said the majority of our players are from the winning side when the season ended, till these last 4 games we were good, even pushing for 5 straight wins. So whats happened?  is there unrest in the squad?, and wheres Pope he hasn't even been on the bench these last 2 games, ok he could not play a full match but a half time sub to either hold the lead or to get something out of a game...

    Since the Kings Lynn match i haven't the buzz, not looking forward to sats match either.

 

Pope is self isolating matey

[CAVALIER]

I'm not people's, I'm a "your". My issue is that I've seen nothing but decline so far since we appointed several and I'd rather spend money on players. Plus I didn't mention Academy. Didn't think we had one actually.

What is peoples issue with the coaches in the academy? Very strange that people keep having digs at it.

[ClntonBoulton]

2 hours ago, onestepatatime said:

Blind faith loyalty from some fans surely should not now mask the ever growing reality that we are in for yet another disappointing season.
The many years a substantial lot of us have experienced supporting Vale have hardened us to expecting so many ups and downs, false horizons, shattered dreams and so on.
It's a new era now though that should have commenced an upturn in Vale's exploits on the field. With our fantastic new Owners laying the foundations for a hopefully successful and progressive time in our history it's increasingly obvious that we have yet to match the Owners targets and expectations or are we likely to with the current squad and manager?
Many of us have sat on the fence regarding Askey. It's clear a horde of fans are now at the end of their tether and are joining the momentum for change.
Askey's relaxed, one dimensional, predictable aura has penetrated the squad.No one seems capable of either being motivated or willing to carry out his tactics or methods on the pitch. I sit in Lorne Street and over his tenure remarked in posts that he actually just remains static on the by line, motionless and showing no emotion or enthusiasm to get across any type of instructions or encouragement to the players during a game. This spills out in his post match interviews too and it's certain that he simply cannot change. His inept tactical ability, strange selections and inability to generate any kind of genuine belief to fans adds to my submission that he is out of his depth.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I agree.But it's now reached the stage where I'm told by several other long standing fans in Lorne Street that they will not be renewing their season tickets if Askey stays. That is a stark reality of our situation- Carol has to weigh up future prospects of attracting fans to generate funds to keep the Club alive against another period of mediocrity and dwindling fan base.
I respect Carol. As a successful business Lady she will know what/ when to do something. All I ask is that she , as a fellow fan, feels the same hurt and is able to ensure Vale have a future, a future of progression and success. My gut reaction is that her ambitions and demands for PVFC have to consider a change in management. To leave the decision any longer will in all probability (due to Askey's ability in remaining stereotypical) see Vale disappear yet again into mediocrity and mid table frustration. UTV.

Amen.

[Vale1995]

The thing is why wait for saturdays result to get rid if we win that buys him more time he needs to go now. them players are not playing for him get him gone

[PV1973]

I had the Stevenage commentary on my feed for the second half, just for a different viewpoint. At around 70 minutes or so they said something along the lines of “our colleagues at bbc radio stoke have just said that they think Port Vale are now playing to something like their potential.  To be fair we have to say that these aren’t the best side that Stevenage have faced all season”.  It’s absolutely deluded if that’s what radio stoke said during the commentary. We were terrible. 

[Joe B]

Probably end up being a long post this.

I don't think we need an 'experienced' or 'proven' manager. 

People point to the failures of Bruno, Brown, and Aspin as evidence that Port Vale needed a League Veteran, but that was under the most incompetent and volatile chairman in the Football League. He was appointing inadequate managers, and then giving them THE worst possible situation to succeed in (not defending any of them for their failures, mind).

However, things are different now. We have a proper owner, who has developed all facets of the club to ensure it has been steady and survived a financial crisis, engaging local businesses and raising our profile in the media. The players are looked after and we are happy to reward good performances with contract. Askey got given a 3 year deal off the back of a decent run of games in March/April 2019. 

As a consequence, I don't see an equivalence is us appointing a young, fresh manager this week, for example, and us appointing one under Smurthwaite. It might be the lift the club needs. We're never going to financially compete for the proper big names, and people bandying around names such as the Cowleys, Adkins, or Cook are not being realistic. If we want an 'experienced' manager who will come to Port Vale, we're looking at Simon Grayson.

Here's something interesting; the top 3 last year were managed by three relatively young, relatively new managers; Artell was in his first job, Lowe was in his 2nd full season (promoted in both), Wellens was in his 2nd full season. Of the top 7, Duff was in his first job at Cheltenham, Taylor was in his first job at Exeter, McGreal was in his first job at Colchester. Only Curle bucked the trend.

This season; Flynn, top, is in his first job, Duff, second,  in his first job, Bonner, third, is in his first job, Beech, sixth, is in his first job. 

These clubs have garnered success by taking punts on managers; younger coaches with new ideas, either in their first job or their second full season as managers. Whilst you could point to Curle, their promotion was slightly fortuitous and I wouldn't have bet on them making the top 7 if the season hadn't stopped.

My overriding point is that we do not need to fall back on the trope of 'get an old head in' because Micky was good in 2012 and Norman appointed a load of frauds and chucked them to the lions. 

We've got a well-run club and will get some really good applicants in. Carol knows what she's doing and might find a diamond of a coach, currently assistant elsewhere (remember a lad called John Rudge?) or coaching at an elite academy, who is desperate for a proper managerial job.

Just my view; we won't go down so don't need a dinosaur to bully the players to 50 points. Port Vale are never going to spend their way to success. We've got some foundations of a reasonable side, which needs a bit of better recruitment, more innovative tactics, and a bit of a refresh.

I've called for out of the box recruitment for years, and maybe we need to take a leaf out of all of the other successful sides at this level and be a bit 'left-field' in the dugout too.

Brian Horton it is.

 

[The man in the pub]

We start with a lone striker , create no chances and offer no goal threat. When we then go behind we change tactics and bring on an additional striker and are more lively. By this time we are chasing the game.

Bearing  in mind the above and our lack of goals scored how about starting with 2 strikers. We just might create more chances and score more goals. Whats the worst than can happen , we are no better  than what we have been. At least we will have tried something different as Plan A obviously  isnt working.

[ELDERBEZZA]

17 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Probably end up being a long post this.

I don't think we need an 'experienced' or 'proven' manager. 

People point to the failures of Bruno, Brown, and Aspin as evidence that Port Vale needed a League Veteran, but that was under the most incompetent and volatile chairman in the Football League. He was appointing inadequate managers, and then giving them THE worst possible situation to succeed in (not defending any of them for their failures, mind).

However, things are different now. We have a proper owner, who has developed all facets of the club to ensure it has been steady and survived a financial crisis, engaging local businesses and raising our profile in the media. The players are looked after and we are happy to reward good performances with contract. Askey got given a 3 year deal off the back of a decent run of games in March/April 2019. 

As a consequence, I don't see an equivalence is us appointing a young, fresh manager this week, for example, and us appointing one under Smurthwaite. It might be the lift the club needs. We're never going to financially compete for the proper big names, and people bandying around names such as the Cowleys, Adkins, or Cook are not being realistic. If we want an 'experienced' manager who will come to Port Vale, we're looking at Simon Grayson.

Here's something interesting; the top 3 last year were managed by three relatively young, relatively new managers; Artell was in his first job, Lowe was in his 2nd full season (promoted in both), Wellens was in his 2nd full season. Of the top 7, Duff was in his first job at Cheltenham, Taylor was in his first job at Exeter, McGreal was in his first job at Colchester. Only Curle bucked the trend.

This season; Flynn, top, is in his first job, Duff, second,  in his first job, Bonner, third, is in his first job, Beech, sixth, is in his first job. 

These clubs have garnered success by taking punts on managers; younger coaches with new ideas, either in their first job or their second full season as managers. Whilst you could point to Curle, their promotion was slightly fortuitous and I wouldn't have bet on them making the top 7 if the season hadn't stopped.

My overriding point is that we do not need to fall back on the trope of 'get an old head in' because Micky was good in 2012 and Norman appointed a load of frauds and chucked them to the lions. 

We've got a well-run club and will get some really good applicants in. Carol knows what she's doing and might find a diamond of a coach, currently assistant elsewhere (remember a lad called John Rudge?) or coaching at an elite academy, who is desperate for a proper managerial job.

Just my view; we won't go down so don't need a dinosaur to bully the players to 50 points. Port Vale are never going to spend their way to success. We've got some foundations of a reasonable side, which needs a bit of better recruitment, more innovative tactics, and a bit of a refresh.

I've called for out of the box recruitment for years, and maybe we need to take a leaf out of all of the other successful sides at this level and be a bit 'left-field' in the dugout too.

Brian Horton it is.

 

Don't forget Askey has the greatest manager Vale have ever had ,as his mentor.Sir John Rudge!!!🤔🤔🤔🤔

[werstayinup]

19 hours ago, TylerB said:

Genuinely think he's worse than the likes of Danny Glover and Kyle Perry. Everyone that supports Vale should have a whip around so he can be released from his contract.

Dont talk stupid,nowhere near as bad as those two compare their overall record,he has been poor yes but so have many others.

Just out of interest what has cullen done? plenty seem to love him