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5 hours ago, darren1810 said:

The Bolton forum, wanderers way are praising Askey and his tactics for sussing out their weaknesses and fully exploiting it.

One of the quotes, ' Askey did a job on us ' 

Askey did well on Saturday, but his style of play was perfect to exploit them.

3 at the back with a high line (against our three forwards who had acres of space in the channels), a commitment to passing from the back (easily disrupted by our high press), an open game as they wanted to attack and score (allowing us to attack on the break which suits our style more than breaking deeper lying teams)

We know Askey can win these games; Crewe, Swindon, Plymouth, Exeter, Colchester, and Bolton have all been spun with his tactics.

It's the games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage, Macclesfield, Grimsby, Mansfield etc where he has historically struggled. He needs to figure out games where teams turn up to frustrate, and not entertain as Bolton did on Saturday.

Some will see this as a dig but Saturday only reinforced what we know about Askey; he can play the underdog brilliantly, to the extent where he nearly got us into the top 7. Colchester and FGR should be much the same. 

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Thought I’d start this thread so it doesn’t get lost in the match threads. Some of our fan base this season has been an embarrassment, calling for Askey to be sacked. We need to take a step back,

Bollox. If you mean 80/90% of posts, you may be close to the mark, but the vast majority of those posts were made by the same half dozen who pop up vociferously whenever we lose. You've fallen into th

I think that the counter attacking way in which we play is probably more to do with the last few seasons performance rather than the way the manager wants to play. We are not in a mid table existence.

4 hours ago, Joe B said:

Askey did well on Saturday, but his style of play was perfect to exploit them.

3 at the back with a high line (against our three forwards who had acres of space in the channels), a commitment to passing from the back (easily disrupted by our high press), an open game as they wanted to attack and score (allowing us to attack on the break which suits our style more than breaking deeper lying teams)

We know Askey can win these games; Crewe, Swindon, Plymouth, Exeter, Colchester, and Bolton have all been spun with his tactics.

It's the games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage, Macclesfield, Grimsby, Mansfield etc where he has historically struggled. He needs to figure out games where teams turn up to frustrate, and not entertain as Bolton did on Saturday.

Some will see this as a dig but Saturday only reinforced what we know about Askey; he can play the underdog brilliantly, to the extent where he nearly got us into the top 7. Colchester and FGR should be much the same. 

Absolutely spot on. 

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12 hours ago, Joe B said:

Askey did well on Saturday, but his style of play was perfect to exploit them.

3 at the back with a high line (against our three forwards who had acres of space in the channels), a commitment to passing from the back (easily disrupted by our high press), an open game as they wanted to attack and score (allowing us to attack on the break which suits our style more than breaking deeper lying teams)

We know Askey can win these games; Crewe, Swindon, Plymouth, Exeter, Colchester, and Bolton have all been spun with his tactics.

It's the games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage, Macclesfield, Grimsby, Mansfield etc where he has historically struggled. He needs to figure out games where teams turn up to frustrate, and not entertain as Bolton did on Saturday.

Some will see this as a dig but Saturday only reinforced what we know about Askey; he can play the underdog brilliantly, to the extent where he nearly got us into the top 7. Colchester and FGR should be much the same. 

All good points Joe.

Only slight disagreement is are Port Vale really the underdog against anyone in this division apart from Bolton, Bradford, Salford and maybe Mansfield with their spending power.

In terms of the League table we are the underdog maybe we need to bull ourselves up more instead of cosy little old Port Vale from a sleepy backwater somewhere in The Midlands, or is it Wales ? 

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10 hours ago, darren1810 said:

All good points Joe.

Only slight disagreement is are Port Vale really the underdog against anyone in this division apart from Bolton, Bradford, Salford and maybe Mansfield with their spending power.

In terms of the League table we are the underdog maybe we need to bull ourselves up more instead of cosy little old Port Vale from a sleepy backwater somewhere in The Midlands, or is it Wales ? 

I 100% agree, and have advocated an end to 'mid-table/existence will do' for a while. We get 4000 STs, get 4500-5000 every home game, a massive financial advantage over most, and should be firmly in contention for playoffs every year we're in this league. If we're not then questions should be asked. I don't think this is demanding.

Askey's style of play though is more suited to when an opponent thinks they can attack, was my point. 

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I 100% agree, and have advocated an end to 'mid-table/existence will do' for a while. We get 4000 STs, get 4500-5000 every home game, a massive financial advantage over most, and should be firmly in contention for playoffs every year we're in this league. If we're not then questions should be asked. I don't think this is demanding.
Askey's style of play though is more suited to when an opponent thinks they can attack, was my point. 
I think that the counter attacking way in which we play is probably more to do with the last few seasons performance rather than the way the manager wants to play. We are not in a mid table existence. Before last season we nearly went out of the league 2 years in a row. We have only had one season in mid table.


The season before last we were awful and just avoided relegation for the 2nd season running having been relegated the season before.


I think players look at how a club has done when signing. For Askeys first summer window we were a club with unproven owners who had had 3 bad seasons. He managed to change the team around from one that was performing less than the sum of its parts to one than was performing greater than the sum of its parts. We had a great run before the season ended due to Covid. Whilst we all like to think that that run would have continued and we would have won the playoffs it is just as likely that it wouldn't have and we would have finished 8th or lower.


To a player looking in from outside we improved but weren't quite good enough for a playoff spot.


So this summer gone we are a bit more attractive to players but are a club that has had 2 bad seasons followed by a reasonable one. In that situation you are unlikely to attract big players unless you pay over the odds.


We chose to focus on the squad and whilst the players that we have brought in maybe don't improve the first team I think they are stronger than the replacements that we had last season.


This season we are performing at a similar level to last season although we are winning and losing more and drawing less. This to me is part of the evolution from a midtable team to a top 7. When it goes wrong it goes very wrong and doesn't look pretty. Teams that played us last season approach games in a different way and make it difficult.


This season if we can push on and get into the playoffs great. If not then we need to ensure that we are in or around the playoffs. If we do then next summer all of a sudden we are a more attractive league 2 team for players to sign for. Players who would have signed for a lower league 1 team and sat on the bench last summer may consider signing for a consistent top half league 2 team for a bit less money where they are going to play and likely to win games and look good.


Slow progression is the best way to improve as that way it costs less and you are in a financial position to make the next step up rather than having used your gamble to get to the position you are currently in.
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11 hours ago, wotsyobeef said:

I think that the counter attacking way in which we play is probably more to do with the last few seasons performance rather than the way the manager wants to play. We are not in a mid table existence. Before last season we nearly went out of the league 2 years in a row. We have only had one season in mid table.


The season before last we were awful and just avoided relegation for the 2nd season running having been relegated the season before.


I think players look at how a club has done when signing. For Askeys first summer window we were a club with unproven owners who had had 3 bad seasons. He managed to change the team around from one that was performing less than the sum of its parts to one than was performing greater than the sum of its parts. We had a great run before the season ended due to Covid. Whilst we all like to think that that run would have continued and we would have won the playoffs it is just as likely that it wouldn't have and we would have finished 8th or lower.


To a player looking in from outside we improved but weren't quite good enough for a playoff spot.


So this summer gone we are a bit more attractive to players but are a club that has had 2 bad seasons followed by a reasonable one. In that situation you are unlikely to attract big players unless you pay over the odds.


We chose to focus on the squad and whilst the players that we have brought in maybe don't improve the first team I think they are stronger than the replacements that we had last season.


This season we are performing at a similar level to last season although we are winning and losing more and drawing less. This to me is part of the evolution from a midtable team to a top 7. When it goes wrong it goes very wrong and doesn't look pretty. Teams that played us last season approach games in a different way and make it difficult.


This season if we can push on and get into the playoffs great. If not then we need to ensure that we are in or around the playoffs. If we do then next summer all of a sudden we are a more attractive league 2 team for players to sign for. Players who would have signed for a lower league 1 team and sat on the bench last summer may consider signing for a consistent top half league 2 team for a bit less money where they are going to play and likely to win games and look good.


Slow progression is the best way to improve as that way it costs less and you are in a financial position to make the next step up rather than having used your gamble to get to the position you are currently in.

Brilliant analysis.

Thank you.

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I think that the counter attacking way in which we play is probably more to do with the last few seasons performance rather than the way the manager wants to play. We are not in a mid table existence. Before last season we nearly went out of the league 2 years in a row. We have only had one season in mid table.


The season before last we were awful and just avoided relegation for the 2nd season running having been relegated the season before.


I think players look at how a club has done when signing. For Askeys first summer window we were a club with unproven owners who had had 3 bad seasons. He managed to change the team around from one that was performing less than the sum of its parts to one than was performing greater than the sum of its parts. We had a great run before the season ended due to Covid. Whilst we all like to think that that run would have continued and we would have won the playoffs it is just as likely that it wouldn't have and we would have finished 8th or lower.


To a player looking in from outside we improved but weren't quite good enough for a playoff spot.


So this summer gone we are a bit more attractive to players but are a club that has had 2 bad seasons followed by a reasonable one. In that situation you are unlikely to attract big players unless you pay over the odds.


We chose to focus on the squad and whilst the players that we have brought in maybe don't improve the first team I think they are stronger than the replacements that we had last season.


This season we are performing at a similar level to last season although we are winning and losing more and drawing less. This to me is part of the evolution from a midtable team to a top 7. When it goes wrong it goes very wrong and doesn't look pretty. Teams that played us last season approach games in a different way and make it difficult.


This season if we can push on and get into the playoffs great. If not then we need to ensure that we are in or around the playoffs. If we do then next summer all of a sudden we are a more attractive league 2 team for players to sign for. Players who would have signed for a lower league 1 team and sat on the bench last summer may consider signing for a consistent top half league 2 team for a bit less money where they are going to play and likely to win games and look good.


Slow progression is the best way to improve as that way it costs less and you are in a financial position to make the next step up rather than having used your gamble to get to the position you are currently in.

Most sensible , balanced post I’ve read on here . I agree ️. People after a fast fix which just doesn’t exist unless someone wants to throw millions at it which we can’t. Stable and steady progress with the continued improvements off the field certainly suits me for now ! Can always be re assessed at the end of the season.

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24 minutes ago, dazzerjames said:


Most sensible , balanced post I’ve read on here . I agree emoji121.png️. People after a fast fix which just doesn’t exist unless someone wants to throw millions at it which we can’t. Stable and steady progress with the continued improvements off the field certainly suits me for now ! Can always be re assessed at the end of the season.

Fast fix? Been in this league for years with a far bigger budget than others this season. 
 

owners said they wanted higher than 8th so why is the dross that’s been served up acceptable? 
 

what progress have we made? We’re a worse side than last season with signings that have made us worse rather than better. Can’t give a manager until the end of the season period; what if we go and lose the next 2/3 games again? 
 

one good game and people think we’re going to be flying back into play off contention again.

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Fast fix? Been in this league for years with a far bigger budget than others this season. 
 
owners said they wanted higher than 8th so why is the dross that’s been served up acceptable? 
 
what progress have we made? We’re a worse side than last season with signings that have made us worse rather than better. Can’t give a manager until the end of the season period; what if we go and lose the next 2/3 games again? 
 
one good game and people think we’re going to be flying back into play off contention again.
You're fast becoming the forum clown PV4L. Give it a rest. You go on at me for commenting on pope, yet your hatred of JA and totally unbalanced view beggars belief.
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31 minutes ago, philmpv said:
39 minutes ago, PortVale4Life said:
Fast fix? Been in this league for years with a far bigger budget than others this season. 
 
owners said they wanted higher than 8th so why is the dross that’s been served up acceptable? 
 
what progress have we made? We’re a worse side than last season with signings that have made us worse rather than better. Can’t give a manager until the end of the season period; what if we go and lose the next 2/3 games again? 
 
one good game and people think we’re going to be flying back into play off contention again.

You're fast becoming the forum clown PV4L. Give it a rest. You go on at me for commenting on pope, yet your hatred of JA and totally unbalanced view beggars belief.

No hatred what so ever. 
 

we had lost 6 games in a row you no. The manager Dosent get praise for that! 
 

Very surprised you haven’t been filling the forum up in regards to pope yesterday...

How is it unbalanced?

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Askey and the players proved me wrong on Saturday. I thought Askey should have gone because I didn’t believe he could change things. 
 

That win was a radical change, which shows he is capable of doing something right. 
 

I don’t think that was just a flash in the pan either. Our tempo was quick, link up play good, kept our shape etc. 
 

Those were the areas that needed addressing and we saw back in the early Askey era, early matches looked dire, but once the team clicked to his changes, that was it. It was a different side. 
 

I hope and believe that is what we saw on Saturday. 

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2 hours ago, PortVale4Life said:

Fast fix? Been in this league for years with a far bigger budget than others this season. 
 

Far bigger budget than others?  Have you not heard of the EFL wage cap??

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59 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

Askey and the players proved me wrong on Saturday. I thought Askey should have gone because I didn’t believe he could change things. 
 

That win was a radical change, which shows he is capable of doing something right. 
 

I don’t think that was just a flash in the pan either. Our tempo was quick, link up play good, kept our shape etc. 
 

Those were the areas that needed addressing and we saw back in the early Askey era, early matches looked dire, but once the team clicked to his changes, that was it. It was a different side. 
 

I hope and believe that is what we saw on Saturday. 

I don’t agree it was a radical change. It’s how we have performed against sides that attack us. He has always set up really well against these sides hence why we usually do well against them. a brilliant win still but one that askey is very good at doing. 
 

the issue is the games against sides that sit in and do what we did to Bolton to us. Not sure about keeping shape either, we did concede 3 goals. 
 

Saturday will be a bigger test imo. A side likely to sit in and let us have the ball, this is where the issues have been. Still saturdays result was much better than I was expecting. Even though traditionally we have done well in games such as this under askey I wasn’t hopefully of points given our form and performances so delighted to be proven wrong saturday (especially when the 11 was announced)

Edited by valiant_593

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I don’t agree it was a radical change. It’s how we have performed against sides that attack us. He has always set up really well against these sides hence why we usually do well against them. a brilliant win still but one that askey is very good at doing. 
 
the issue is the games against sides that sit in and do what we did to Bolton to us. Not sure about keeping shape either, we did concede 3 goals. 
 
Saturday will be a bigger test imo. A side likely to sit in and let us have the ball, this is where the issues have been. Still saturdays result was much better than I was expecting. Even though traditionally we have done well in games such as this under askey I wasn’t hopefully of points given our form and performances so delighted to be proven wrong saturday (especially when the 11 was announced)


No one has beaten us 6-3 , we have only lost by 1 and been unlucky in most. Other then perhaps the Stevenage game that was an absolutely awful performance. That aside , men being sent off and late goals were the difference between what should have been a win and a couple of draws.
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Fast fix? Been in this league for years with a far bigger budget than others this season. 
 
owners said they wanted higher than 8th so why is the dross that’s been served up acceptable? 
 
what progress have we made? We’re a worse side than last season with signings that have made us worse rather than better. Can’t give a manager until the end of the season period; what if we go and lose the next 2/3 games again? 
 
one good game and people think we’re going to be flying back into play off contention again.

Been in this league for a few years yes .. not with Askey. 2 straight wins and still banging the drum. A new manager would still have the same group of players to work with. What difference they would bring half way through a season I’m unsure. Does all appear to me a personal issue you have with the man.
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There seems to be a common mindset that Askey's teams can't break teams down that sit back and play on the counter.

So I assume that when Macclesfield won the national league every team that they played must have gone all out attack.

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1 hour ago, dazzerjames said:

 


No one has beaten us 6-3 , we have only lost by 1 and been unlucky in most. Other then perhaps the Stevenage game that was an absolutely awful performance. That aside , men being sent off and late goals were the difference between what should have been a win and a couple of draws.

 

They haven’t and your right we have only lost by the odd goal. However the issues are still the same. Against sides who sit in and that we couldn’t breakdown, they then counter and leave with a 1-0 win. Stevenage game was diabolical and the worse I’ve seen for years. I get your point however I’d still say we managed the games horribly. Leaving it far too late to make changes in the games where we had red cards, not making attacking changes in games we were losing 1-0 / struggling to break sides down. 
 

this is the area askey has to improve, it was the same last season. We do well against sides who attack us (very well) but really struggle if they sit in and ask us to attack them. 

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23 minutes ago, wotsyobeef said:

There seems to be a common mindset that Askey's teams can't break teams down that sit back and play on the counter.

So I assume that when Macclesfield won the national league every team that they played must have gone all out attack.

Well the can’t can they? It’s exactly what we haven’t been able to do since he’s been here. Been very good when teams attack us but very poor when we need to break them down. 
 

no idea re Macclesfield as I don’t follow them but they were in a completely different division. I’m sure macc fans have actually said that this is an issue of askeys anyway 

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