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3 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:
17 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:
Don’t think people care as long as we actually win some games 

Going back from 1968 only four managers who won more than they lost : Gordon Lee, John Rudge, Micky Adams and John Askey !!!

Good evening Birches Head Fred,

Pointless facts are something that I myself, really enjoy.

One hopes you don't mind me sharing one with you also?

Here goes!

Did you know that Rob Page had a better win percentage than John Rudge?

37.6% to 37.1%.
 

All the very best,

Jeff.

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Thought I’d start this thread so it doesn’t get lost in the match threads. Some of our fan base this season has been an embarrassment, calling for Askey to be sacked. We need to take a step back,

The owners trust Askey with the task.  That's good enough for me.

Bollox. If you mean 80/90% of posts, you may be close to the mark, but the vast majority of those posts were made by the same half dozen who pop up vociferously whenever we lose. You've fallen into th

26 minutes ago, rayzer said:

I would be very surprised if John Askey was relieved of his duties before the end of the season.

I was happy that we re-signed the players who were out of contract at the end of last season but I was hoping that the new signings were of a better standard that we had last season and we would replace the aging legs of Legge, Joyce and Pope along with a decent attacking midfielder. Unfortunately we didn't and I believe is the reason we are in the state we are now. I think the current squad is going to leave us mid table so no real worries at the business end of the season.

With this in mind I can see Carol writing this season off and not throwing money at the problem by sacking Askey and replacing him with another manager. With this covid situation we are in, the club needs to be as prudent as it can and the cost of sacking Askey and his back room staff along with the salary for the incoming staff could be too draining on the finances at a time of little income. Add to this the cost of new players and it does not make sense to sack Askey because of the costings alone. You also have to remember that we already have a squad of 22 and to replace players in January you would have to sell some. The next question is who would want any of our current squad especially when clubs are in a bad way financially during these unusual times.

It might not be palatable at the moment but I am sure many fans will agree with my reasoning even if I am not happy with the way we are going at the moment.

 

Absolutely brilliant ,constructive ,sensible summing up.Too many people forget the bigger picture, as we are very lucky to have a football club.

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21 minutes ago, Jeff. said:

Good evening Birches Head Fred,

Pointless facts are something that I myself, really enjoy.

One hopes you don't mind me sharing one with you also?

Here goes!

Did you know that Rob Page had a better win percentage than John Rudge?

37.6% to 37.1%.
 

All the very best,

Jeff.

Godd evening to yourself Jeff,

quite an interesting pointless fact that.

As an aside, could you enlighten us to Mr. Askeys win percentage for Port Vale ?

Regards

Fred.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Godd evening to yourself Jeff,

quite an interesting pointless fact that.

As an aside, could you enlighten us to Mr. Askeys win percentage for Port Vale ?

Regards

Fred.

 

 

38.6%

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1 minute ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Godd evening to yourself Jeff,

quite an interesting pointless fact that.

As an aside, could you enlighten us to Mr. Askeys win percentage for Port Vale ?

Regards

Fred.

 

 

Good evening again Fred,

I hope you don't mind me referring to you as Fred.

Of course, I'd be delighted too. 

In all competitions John Colin Askey has a win percentage of 38.6%. 

32 victories. 22 draws. 29 defeats.

All the very best,

Jeff. 

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23 minutes ago, rayzer said:

I would be very surprised if John Askey was relieved of his duties before the end of the season.

I was happy that we re-signed the players who were out of contract at the end of last season but I was hoping that the new signings were of a better standard that we had last season and we would replace the aging legs of Legge, Joyce and Pope along with a decent attacking midfielder. Unfortunately we didn't and I believe is the reason we are in the state we are now. I think the current squad is going to leave us mid table so no real worries at the business end of the season.

With this in mind I can see Carol writing this season off and not throwing money at the problem by sacking Askey and replacing him with another manager. With this covid situation we are in, the club needs to be as prudent as it can and the cost of sacking Askey and his back room staff along with the salary for the incoming staff could be too draining on the finances at a time of little income. Add to this the cost of new players and it does not make sense to sack Askey because of the costings alone. You also have to remember that we already have a squad of 22 and to replace players in January you would have to sell some. The next question is who would want any of our current squad especially when clubs are in a bad way financially during these unusual times.

It might not be palatable at the moment but I am sure many fans will agree with my reasoning even if I am not happy with the way we are going at the moment.

 

Ray, I disagree with your thought that Carol won't do anything. I've seen you mention the cost of getting rid of the staff as a key factor. It shouldn't be. I would imagine the staff have the same pay-off agreement as Askey does. If we were really and truly sure that this was to be a promotion season (Or at least a very decent effort at it), then this shouldn't be a factor. 'Writing' this season off would actually, be a medium/long-term nightmare for us in my opinion. This is the last season that a club could effectively overspend the salary cap (All players signed before the cap was agreed are charged to the cap at approximately 70-75k or less) and still fall in line. In future when we sign someone, their full salary will count. We were one of those clubs that signed players before the cap came in to take advantage along with some other ambitious clubs. So there was obviously a thought that we should be competing at the top end of the league. Having spoken to Carol as part of the podcast, my opinion was that promotion was the expectation before we started. I don't think it will be ok that we don't make it this year in Carol's expectations, and I would expect that if she thinks she can right the ship she will do what is necessary. Whether that is sacking the manager or not, I don't know. But I think she'll take the best approach to make Port Vale successful, if we have to pay some get rid of some people and it costs some money, I think the costs will be acceptable if it means we can be successful.

 

I do concur that the recruitment in the summer was poor. We signed more 'competition' and depth than we did outright starters. The striking situation in particular is absurd when you think about it. Pope/Cullen/Robinson/Rodney. 4 strikers for one starting role! I know Rodney is a developing player, but we didn't need two extra backups when there was virtually no chance of a long-term move to playing 2 strikers. I didn't like that we thought we had the replacement to Legge on the books either. I thought at Legge's age, this was the perfect time to move him to playing 25-30 games a season. Are Brisley/Crookes good enough to get us up? I don't think either of us have shown that. McKirdy's signing also was weird to me. He didn't seem a fit at all with our mentality. 

 

Who knows what will happen next. What I do know is that the people in charge shouldn't be afraid to make decisions in the short-term if they benefit the club in the long-term. If it is truly a cost issue, then I would be disappointed as I believed we were more financially secure than that.

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

No, I didn't suggest we did. I just want out of it. Not in the slightest the same. Not even sure what your point is. I was referring to Parkinson, despite being an odious character, would probably give us a better chance of getting promoted, considering his record?

It's absolutely s*** supporting a s*** football team your entire life. It's miserable.

I know it’s <ovf censored>.  But one bad run doesn’t mean we should automatically make a rash decision because we’re frustrated at being stuck in this league. Chopping and changing managers may not be the answer, but then again it may be.  Big decisions for Carol as to whether we should stick or twist. But without the necessary resources will we ever see a return to the “glory days”.  

58 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

We have one loan player at the moment whom we could swap.  Who would swap Mitch Clark for Jake Taylor????

In a heartbeat. I wouldn’t be surprised if we go back in for Taylor in January. Is there a rule on the amount of loans or what they count for in regards to the salary stuff? 

Edited by PV1973

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36 minutes ago, Jeff. said:

Good evening again Fred,

I hope you don't mind me referring to you as Fred.

Of course, I'd be delighted too. 

In all competitions John Colin Askey has a win percentage of 38.6%. 

32 victories. 22 draws. 29 defeats.

All the very best,

Jeff. 

Cheers for that Jeff  and no, I don't mind you referring to me as Fred - I've been referred to as much worse.

I'm not into stats too much myself but 38.6% sounds pretty reasonable to me, however it's only my opinion.

Regards

Fred

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His win percentage average is a lot worse than JA. On what basis is he a good fit for us, out of genuine interest?
Most of those games were in L1, not the National League.

He has 1 x promotion to L1 and 2 x promotions to the Championship under his belt.

Knows L2 and L1 well and more suited to "underdog" clubs rather than the cash splashers.

But I'm sure you're happy with JA signing non league players every year eh?

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There are many constructive, realistic and honest posts here.

My thoughts replicate many.

It has been poor, even last season, lack of goals may have been our downfall, particularly in games over 2 legs in the play-offs. (I'm sure we would have made it)

We looked organised, fit and tidy last season which 'may' have been enough.

A good start to this season was expected, results wise it delivered. There were cracks there, particularly in terms of creativity and firepower. I have said many times that Tom Pope is still our best forward. Nathan Smith our best player.

Strong contributions from Brown, Legge, Joyce, Worrall and Amoo should ensure a top ten finish imo.

Recruitment has not offered much and not improved the team that much, Fitzpatrick the pick of the bunch, not being able to recruit Jake Taylor has been a big miss.

We are currently struggling, the things that made us a steady dependable side are failing, there are many reasons for this.

It's not bad luck as John Askey might say.

For me Carol and the board are measured and astute and I'm confident they will do what's right for the club going forward.

If performances and more importantly results don't improve quite quickly, there is only one outcome. We all know that, so does john Askey

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2 hours ago, Norfolk Enclue said:

I was, still am really, an Askey "in" Vale fan, although after the Stevenage game in particular, I've drifted from outright support to an indifferent one. I think that John has the 4 league games to Christmas to improve matters. If performances fall further or flatline with no improvement evident, and subsequently results follow suit then he'll be gone by Walsall. Possibly Colchester if things really do fall off a cliff

Norfolk Enclue ,you will draw the line at 8 or 9 league defeats on the trot?

Out of interest hypothetically what would you think if we lost to Bolton, did well in the Pizza trophy then drew or lost v Colchester? Enough signs of recovery to get another go against Walsall?

Edited by MBE

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2 hours ago, rayzer said:

It might not be palatable at the moment but I am sure many fans will agree with my reasoning even if I am not happy with the way we are going at the moment.

Very fair valid points and could be a factor.

I hope the club have a different logic though. There should be a sense of urgency to go up this season due to the ageing squad and capitalise on the feel good factor of the club. Playing in L1 with crowds next year would substantially increase revenue streams and fans interest.

If we do nothing and finish mid table then it will be a really big rebuild job in L2 in the summer.

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9 minutes ago, MBE said:

Norfolk Enclue you will draw the line at 8 or 9 league defeats on the trot.

Out of interest hypothetically what would you think if we lost to Bolton, did well in the Pizza trophy then drew or lost v Colchester? Enough signs of recovery to get another go against Walsall?

I'm an admirer of Askey and desperately want results to improve, but of course, unless we're relying on luck completely, performances need to improve. It's more the performances that I'm looking for an upturn. If we play well against Bolton and Colchester but lose then I think John should be given til Walsall, but I don't think he'll continue as Manager if we lose to FGR and Walsall no matter how the team gets on. I hope that John turns it around. I just fear that it's getting tight.

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55 minutes ago, stupers said:

Ray, I disagree with your thought that Carol won't do anything. I've seen you mention the cost of getting rid of the staff as a key factor. It shouldn't be. I would imagine the staff have the same pay-off agreement as Askey does. If we were really and truly sure that this was to be a promotion season (Or at least a very decent effort at it), then this shouldn't be a factor. 'Writing' this season off would actually, be a medium/long-term nightmare for us in my opinion. This is the last season that a club could effectively overspend the salary cap (All players signed before the cap was agreed are charged to the cap at approximately 70-75k or less) and still fall in line. In future when we sign someone, their full salary will count. We were one of those clubs that signed players before the cap came in to take advantage along with some other ambitious clubs. So there was obviously a thought that we should be competing at the top end of the league. Having spoken to Carol as part of the podcast, my opinion was that promotion was the expectation before we started. I don't think it will be ok that we don't make it this year in Carol's expectations, and I would expect that if she thinks she can right the ship she will do what is necessary. Whether that is sacking the manager or not, I don't know. But I think she'll take the best approach to make Port Vale successful, if we have to pay some get rid of some people and it costs some money, I think the costs will be acceptable if it means we can be successful.

 

I do concur that the recruitment in the summer was poor. We signed more 'competition' and depth than we did outright starters. The striking situation in particular is absurd when you think about it. Pope/Cullen/Robinson/Rodney. 4 strikers for one starting role! I know Rodney is a developing player, but we didn't need two extra backups when there was virtually no chance of a long-term move to playing 2 strikers. I didn't like that we thought we had the replacement to Legge on the books either. I thought at Legge's age, this was the perfect time to move him to playing 25-30 games a season. Are Brisley/Crookes good enough to get us up? I don't think either of us have shown that. McKirdy's signing also was weird to me. He didn't seem a fit at all with our mentality. 

 

Who knows what will happen next. What I do know is that the people in charge shouldn't be afraid to make decisions in the short-term if they benefit the club in the long-term. If it is truly a cost issue, then I would be disappointed as I believed we were more financially secure than that.

I have a touch of double think here, as you and @rayzermake two very good yet totally opposite arguments both of which could well be true.

If I was a betting man I’d say Carol would err on the side of caution, if for no other reason than I think our current form has kiboshed any hopes of automatic promotion and probably the play-offs.

We are far too predictable and leaky and more likely to lose than get a result at the moment, whereas last year it felt we were more likely to win than drop points.

That said, I think if we were to lose another 4 games between now and January, she might have to make a decision. I do know that relegation is not in the business plan.

I can’t really slate the transfer business as I thought the continuity would be a good thing. Plus the market was a bit weird this summer, but I sensed we were trying to be a bit clever, hoping there would be a deluge of quality players all scrambling for contracts allowing us to pick up a bargain at the last minute, yet we ended up with McKirdy (who may yet come good) and Robinson. Was this because of internal or external budget constraints (or both)?

I did state that I wasn’t bothered whether Smith stayed or went, and my concern was around whether we’d blown a lot of our budget retaining him that would have been better spent on a striker or attacking midfielder. I thought Rodney would be a hit and likewise Robinson as he - like Calvin Andrew - seemed to flourish after leaving Vale under different managers, which I thought might be the result of the sterile stuff we were playing at the time. Well so far I’ve be totally wrong on the latter - Robinson has not looked interested in the slightest - and am still to be convinced on the former.

It’s all a tad confusing at the moment and the summer optimism seems a distant memory with it all seeming very quiet at the club.

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2 hours ago, Birches Head Fred said:
2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:
Don’t think people care as long as we actually win some games 

Going back from 1968 only four managers who won more than they lost : Gordon Lee, John Rudge, Micky Adams and John Askey !!!

Won’t last much longer that 

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59 minutes ago, Birches Head Fred said:

Cheers for that Jeff  and no, I don't mind you referring to me as Fred - I've been referred to as much worse.

I'm not into stats too much myself but 38.6% sounds pretty reasonable to me, however it's only my opinion.

Regards

Fred

Good evening again Fred,

You seem a very respectable chap and therefore one fully respects one's views.

In regards to John Colin Askey whilst speaking stats and facts, Mr Askey has now lost 53.33% of his league fixtures whilst managing Port Vale throughout the current campaign, in what was touted to be a season of glory.

In one's opinion keeping Mr Askey in his position would not bring glory to the streets of Burslem, but leave the the area as subdued as I imagine Mr Askey sounds after he's been told some really good news.

All the very best Fred,

Jeff. 

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