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Like @robfI was optimistic beforehand given the line up, but it shows that the first 11 is finely tuned and if there are absences or players off their game then we look a very ordinary, dare I say quite poor, side.

A reversion to 4-3-3 is needed. I’d have a back 4 of Clarke, Legge, Brisley/Smith and Fitz; Joyce, Conlon and Worrall; then Monty, Rodney and McKirdy. Moving Worrall into midfield is the only way I can see us having enough energy and creativity but admit this isn’t perfect. I really don’t like Rodney wide and think he’s more effective down the middle. And it’s time for McKirdy to step up and show us what the fuss was about when he signed.

Edited by Biddulph_PV
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I like Askey and think he has done a good job since taking over and wouldn't want to judge him untill end of the season. However I think the last three games are worrying because in all three games we

Hate posts like this. This is a forum. It is where football fans discuss football. Bore off

I think what we have forgotten is he came in to a club where players were turning up drunk to training eating leftovers and he had 2 players banned for failing drug tests. Yes he's slow with his subs

50 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Moving Worrall into midfield is the only way I can see us having enough energy and creativity but admit this isn’t perfect.

I think Monty could do that too. I think if he's on song he could cause chaos (perhaps for both teams!!!) in the centre. However, I see the point that moving Worrall or Monty from the flanks leaves us either hoping McKirdy gets match fit soon/Amoo recovers quickly from injury or leaving Rodney out there. I guess the other option (presuming Manny ain't returning anytime soon) is if Burgess can recapture some form he could partner Conlon.

For me I would leave Rodney wide as I think he can score goals from there and I'm not sure he's the finished article (i.e. in terms of hold-up play/awareness) to have in the centre. I think in time Rodney may make a cracking central striker but I'm not sure he's there yet.

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I didn't see much of Port Vale last season but I'm surprised how poor and devoid of creativity we now seem to be. None of the new signings look to offer much at all on what I've seen so far and some look very poor. Its early days but Pope still appears to be our best option up top. The midfield looks as weak as a puppy especially without Manny/Joyce/Conlon. I don't understand what Burgess is all about. Worrall screams bloke being played out of position. Who's going to create and who's going to put the thing in the net?

Askey of course deserves time to get it right, but with games coming thick and fast time will soon start to run out if it begins to feel like we've changed our name to Port Vale Nil.

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I feel that the main problem is, that without Manny in the side we create little. That has been a long story from much of last season too. 

A strong, winning Vale side always has Conlon and Manny in it. 

Askey’s biggest failing which seems so obvious is that we don’t play at a high enough tempo. That doesn’t help the likes of Worrall to get up the pitch and stretch sides. 
 

The common issue with the last few league games is that none of those sides seem to have much pace in them and we fail to dictate a higher temp to open them up. 
 

We should be doing that at home. 
 

To be fair, we would have had at least a point yesterday if it was not for some awful misses from Rodney and Pope. 

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2 hours ago, Rory said:

I didn't see much of Port Vale last season but I'm surprised how poor and devoid of creativity we now seem to be. None of the new signings look to offer much at all on what I've seen so far and some look very poor. Its early days but Pope still appears to be our best option up top. The midfield looks as weak as a puppy especially without Manny/Joyce/Conlon. I don't understand what Burgess is all about. Worrall screams bloke being played out of position. Who's going to create and who's going to put the thing in the net?

Askey of course deserves time to get it right, but with games coming thick and fast time will soon start to run out if it begins to feel like we've changed our name to Port Vale Nil.

I agree. In fact I have seen enough of Robinson to feel he is the duffer I had feared. 
 

We had a good squad last season. In my view we were 1 proven man away from being a promotion team. 
 

That man would have been Maynard and throwing money at him would have been better for our league position that throwing it at various gambles or mediocre signings like Robinson, McKirdy etc. 

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2 hours ago, robf said:

I think Monty could do that too. I think if he's on song he could cause chaos (perhaps for both teams!!!) in the centre. However, I see the point that moving Worrall or Monty from the flanks leaves us either hoping McKirdy gets match fit soon/Amoo recovers quickly from injury or leaving Rodney out there. I guess the other option (presuming Manny ain't returning anytime soon) is if Burgess can recapture some form he could partner Conlon.

For me I would leave Rodney wide as I think he can score goals from there and I'm not sure he's the finished article (i.e. in terms of hold-up play/awareness) to have in the centre. I think in time Rodney may make a cracking central striker but I'm not sure he's there yet.

Worrall is nowhere near a big enough or physical presence to play in Centre mid. I long for the days of a Sam Collins style guy running at players: 

Pope, when we struggle effectively ends up playing as a centre mid as he tends of get involved in midfield scraps. I remember him doing this in the dark days of the Aspin era. 

I don’t think Rodney will be good enough consistently wherever you put him to be a regular starter. He appears too inconsistent. 
 

 

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31 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

Worrall is nowhere near a big enough or physical presence to play in Centre mid. I long for the days of a Sam Collins style guy running at players: 

Callum Guy is hardly an intimidating presence either but he ran midfield yesterday 😉

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59 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

Worrall is nowhere near a big enough or physical presence to play in Centre mid. I long for the days of a Sam Collins style guy running at players: 

Pope, when we struggle effectively ends up playing as a centre mid as he tends of get involved in midfield scraps. I remember him doing this in the dark days of the Aspin era. 

I don’t think Rodney will be good enough consistently wherever you put him to be a regular starter. He appears too inconsistent. 
 

 

Conlon and Joyce are hardly big and physical, especially the former, and yet they've both done alright.

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1 hour ago, TJHValiant said:

Worrall is nowhere near a big enough or physical presence to play in Centre mid. I long for the days of a Sam Collins style guy running at players: 

Pope, when we struggle effectively ends up playing as a centre mid as he tends of get involved in midfield scraps. I remember him doing this in the dark days of the Aspin era. 

I don’t think Rodney will be good enough consistently wherever you put him to be a regular starter. He appears too inconsistent. 
 

 

The very thought of Sam Collins running at players made me smile.

He was a less than cultured centre half who was a row Z centre half. 

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I have to confess I have some worries about Askey. Last season he did really well for us, exceeded our expectations and took everyone by surprise. This season he’s been outwitted now on three occasions, early in the season, and he seems to struggle to know what to do to put things right, both ahead of the game and during it.

After last week, I don't blame him for changing the formation but his player selection was poor, leaving out arguably our best midfielders and then, when we’re overwhelmed in midfield, waiting too long to change it. It was patently obvious we had no control of the game and he should have rung the changes at half time but he waited for too long.  I also think his subbing is generally poor - too late and makes the wrong changes - but then I thought that about Rudge. 

This may well be a blip but we will know a lot more after the next three games: two at the top (Salford, home and Cambridge, away); then bottom club Oldham away. Lose those and it's starting to look more than a bit worrying. After that, we have Cheltenham at home and Southend away - again, top and bottom. If we've not picked up by then, the end of October - we (and he) will be drifting onto thin ice.

We need to get behind JA and the team but the one thing that would help him more than anything is missing - the crowd. It's not just at home where I think we're the twelfth man but also away where, in L2, we often make more noise than the home crowd and our raucous support unsettles our opponents on their own pitch. Nothing like it. But it's missing and it's the one factor I think will be having more of an effect than we think. The dynamics of this and the implications for performance have generally, in my view, received too little attention and comment.

Just hope I'm worrying about nothing but we'll see.

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Please keep this on topic.

If you want to come on here, not even mention the forum topic in your post but just engage in personal insults with someone else then can you do it off this forum.

Those posts have now been hidden.

Thanks!

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49 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

As for ranting about it only being Carlisle...   no game is a given.  Its hugely naive bordering on pathetic to just look at a club this early on and expect to get a result.

Morcombe for example are top of the league.  People are expecting Cheltenham to be up there but Morcombe beat them at there place.  Its too early to know who the good sides are yet, especially under these strange times with no fans and stretched budgets.

Folk need to calm down a bit and stop borrowing trouble.  We will be there come the end of the season.

No one is ranting. Just stating the bleeding obvious that in the last three league games we have played poorly.  

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JA is a good manager. He has his own philosophy and ideas and we're usually competitive when he sends his team's out onto the park. 

We're probably realising now that L2 isn't going to be easy this season. Players like Mccurdy, Robinson and Rodney will take time to settle , but hopefully they'll improve us in time. We're missing Smith at the moment and I also think we're missing Jake Taylor a hell of a lot. I'm gutted he's ended up at Scunthorpe! 

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What we are missing is our team coming off the pitch with most of our players turning in a 7/10 performance. Putting in 5/10 performances doesn't get you promoted regardless of the formation.

JA is a good manager. He has his own philosophy and ideas and we're usually competitive when he sends his team's out onto the park. 
We're probably realising now that L2 isn't going to be easy this season. Players like Mccurdy, Robinson and Rodney will take time to settle , but hopefully they'll improve us in time. We're missing Smith at the moment and I also think we're missing Jake Taylor a hell of a lot. I'm gutted he's ended up at Scunthorpe! 
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17 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Do people actually think Askey asks them to play like that?  

We had a good result against Wigan and after mini dip prior he owed a chance to those from that game to start this one.  Carlisle turned out to be better than we thought however they should have been buried before then.  Askey didn't ask Rodney to miss that sitter or for Pope to have his penalty saved.  If they go in, we cruise to a convincing home win.

That's why this thread is ridiculous at this stage.  All these folk claiming to have doubts about him, really?  We would have made play offs last season against all the odds and, what, 5 games in he is suddenly under pressure for his job...

Rodney and Pope missed, the game slipped away.  Thats it, analysis over.

 

Yeah, let's just pretend that we've haven't gone three L2 games and only registered a handful of shots on target in all of those combined. Let's act like we haven't scored a goal in three league games on the bounce. Let's pretend that it was almost a masterclass by Askey to drop our two main midfielders for two much weaker players in the last game...

Edited by TylerB

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Whilst we're at it, let's pretend that John askey didn't take us to the brink of the playoffs last season following 2 successive seasons of nearly dropping out of the FL altogether, let's pretend that we haven't beaten Exeter away and wigan away, let's pretend that the progress that the club has made over the past year and a half hasn't happened, let's pretend that Rome was built in a day......

 
Yeah, let's just pretend that we've haven't gone three L2 games and only registered a handful of shots on target in all of those combined. Let's act like we haven't scored a goal in three league games on the bounce. Let's pretend that it was almost a masterclass by Askey to drop our two main midfielders for two much weaker players in the last game...
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