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Ally Simcock defects from Labour to The Tories?


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On 29/08/2020 at 09:32, Nofinikea said:

Ally Simcock.

Didn't she defect from the Supporters Club citing illness only to rock up as Normans fans liason bod?

Seems her beliefs and principles are to serve Ally Simcock.  I wonder what personal benefit there is for her in her latest defection.

£12,000 according to sentinel. She is only interested in what she can get out of things. No interest unless there is something at the end, I would never ever trust her.

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Without wishing to take sides, what Ally has done is no different to what many previously staunch Labour voters in the city did at the last election.  That said, I firmly believe that as an elected re

As it stands, as a councillor, I may, as you correctly point out, vote against my party if I feel it goes against the interests of my constituents.  I don't need to switch my party allegiances to do t

She signed up to represent Labour and the policies they had. If she wanted to be on the council as an individual, she had that choice. So no you are wrong. Resign then put the seat up for re election.

Let's look at in football terms....

You walk into the vale shop and buy the new away kit, you pay, they bag it up, you walk outside...... and it's turned into a stoke home top..... badge, sponsor, advertising, name......

Would you be happy?

Individuals who want to get elected usually go for the party ticket, they get endorsed by the party, election funding (?), support and they sell the party ticket to the electorate. Im surprised the parties don't write it into the agreement that if you give up the party mid term you have to stand for re-election.

It appears the areas that elect independents have rejected the party bull crap. They never do well in general elections.

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8 hours ago, JRC said:

So we have to go through a bielection because some people are too lazy to find out the basis on which English democracy is founded. No elected representative is voted by all the electorate once selected they are expected to serve as the representative of all the electorate for a specific term.

We are discussing a local councillor where local issues may be more important, the easy way is to become an independent. But for MPs, they are not usually representatives just lobby fodder controlled by whips. My opinion of  politicians is very low.

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6 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

People being “lazy”? 
Nobody suggested an elected representative is voted for by all the electorate, rather that many of those that did vote for that individual will have done so based purely on their political allegiance and would quite reasonably expect that their elected representative wouldn’t be swapping and changing political parties during their term in office 

There are democracies where you vote for a party and people are then selected by the party to be an MP. Disadvantage is the MP has no connection with the electorate he serves only to the party. When its a choice between the party and electorate they will support the party. Adavantage is representation is broadly in line with how people voted as they tend to have a larger constituency with multiple elected representatives in each one. People can't change parties because the seat belongs to the party.

We have a constituency system where we have an elected individual who in most cases is a member of a political party. Advantages are we know who the individual is who will represent us and can decide if they are fit and proper. Many elected officials do vote against the party if they feel it goes against interests of their constituency. Disadvantage is they are the elected entity and so can change party (I'm not bothered about this but clearly for you its an issue). Lack of party control over how an individual votes. Number of elected representatives as a whole tend to result in fewer from smaller parties as there are smaller sized electoral areas with some form of winner takes all election.

There isn't a workable middle ground either the voting system is party or individual based. I currently have a vote in two countries. My preference is to vote for an individual, mainly because people are more able to express views which diverge from the party leadership. I personally feel the more views expressed the more likely the right decision will be reached.

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11 minutes ago, JRC said:

There are democracies where you vote for a party and people are then selected by the party to be an MP. Disadvantage is the MP has no connection with the electorate he serves only to the party. When its a choice between the party and electorate they will support the party. Adavantage is representation is broadly in line with how people voted as they tend to have a larger constituency with multiple elected representatives in each one. People can't change parties because the seat belongs to the party.

We have a constituency system where we have an elected individual who in most cases is a member of a political party. Advantages are we know who the individual is who will represent us and can decide if they are fit and proper. Many elected officials do vote against the party if they feel it goes against interests of their constituency. Disadvantage is they are the elected entity and so can change party (I'm not bothered about this but clearly for you its an issue). Lack of party control over how an individual votes. Number of elected representatives as a whole tend to result in fewer from smaller parties as there are smaller sized electoral areas with some form of winner takes all election.

There isn't a workable middle ground either the voting system is party or individual based. I currently have a vote in two countries. My preference is to vote for an individual, mainly because people are more able to express views which diverge from the party leadership. I personally feel the more views expressed the more likely the right decision will be reached.

At a local level most people don't know who the candidates actually are, they simply go along and vote for the person with the party they prefer by there name.

Its morally and ethically wrong on every level, local or national for somebody to switch parties without giving the electorate an opportunity to endorse or reject the move in a bye election.

However in this case, Simcock has previous for selling out to feather her own nest.  She did it when she departed the SC citing health reasons only to take up with Norm - she must have got better very quickly.

Edited by Nofinikea
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6 hours ago, JRC said:

There are democracies where you vote for a party and people are then selected by the party to be an MP. Disadvantage is the MP has no connection with the electorate he serves only to the party. When its a choice between the party and electorate they will support the party. Adavantage is representation is broadly in line with how people voted as they tend to have a larger constituency with multiple elected representatives in each one. People can't change parties because the seat belongs to the party.

We have a constituency system where we have an elected individual who in most cases is a member of a political party. Advantages are we know who the individual is who will represent us and can decide if they are fit and proper. Many elected officials do vote against the party if they feel it goes against interests of their constituency. Disadvantage is they are the elected entity and so can change party (I'm not bothered about this but clearly for you its an issue). Lack of party control over how an individual votes. Number of elected representatives as a whole tend to result in fewer from smaller parties as there are smaller sized electoral areas with some form of winner takes all election.

There isn't a workable middle ground either the voting system is party or individual based. I currently have a vote in two countries. My preference is to vote for an individual, mainly because people are more able to express views which diverge from the party leadership. I personally feel the more views expressed the more likely the right decision will be reached.

As it stands, as a councillor, I may, as you correctly point out, vote against my party if I feel it goes against the interests of my constituents.  I don't need to switch my party allegiances to do this.

I can't see how it can be justified that I could be elected on a Labour ticket on one day and potentially defect to the Conservatives, Lib Dems, Greens,  EDL,  Raving Loonies, etc. the next, and that I can make this decision myself, without the need to go back to my constituents, who I purport to represent.  They may not want to be represented by an EDL councillor, for example, but I can make this choice for them whether they like it or not.  You are saying that this is OK.  I am saying that it's undemocratic.

Whatever the rules allow, the voters should be given the chance to decide whether, or not, they agree with the decision.  The individual(s) concerned should have the courage of their convictions to step down and allow this to happen.

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On 31/08/2020 at 10:37, geosname said:

Let's look at in football terms....

You walk into the vale shop and buy the new away kit, you pay, they bag it up, you walk outside...... and it's turned into a stoke home top..... badge, sponsor, advertising, name......

Would you be happy?

Individuals who want to get elected usually go for the party ticket, they get endorsed by the party, election funding (?), support and they sell the party ticket to the electorate. Im surprised the parties don't write it into the agreement that if you give up the party mid term you have to stand for re-election.

It appears the areas that elect independents have rejected the party bull crap. They never do well in general elections.

Perhaps she didn't fancy wearing a red rosette?

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36 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

I didn’t here anyone on here complaining when lots of MPs switched from the Conservatives leading up to and after Boris got in to power.

Not true. There was uproar when MP'a left the Tories and Labour to join Change/Lib-Dems. Losing the whip is not choosing to leave a party.

Edited by Birdy

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18 hours ago, philpvfc said:

I didn’t here anyone on here complaining when lots of MPs switched from the Conservatives leading up to and after Boris got in to power.

Especially when Anna Soubry,Phillip Hammond and Dominic Grieve left.

It was a case of good riddance.👍

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20 hours ago, Birdy said:

Not true. There was uproar when MP'a left the Tories and Labour to join Change/Lib-Dems. Losing the whip is not choosing to leave a party.

There wasn’t uproar on here. I agree, MPs should not change parties half way through term. I can see the argument against councillors doing it but personally I don’t think it makes too much difference in that role. 

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