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Pope gets six game ban


Smugsy

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On 27/07/2020 at 09:05, Jacko51 said:

Can you be a Semite and be anti-Semitic? An interesting philosophical question. 

Easily done, A Semite is a speaker of a Semetic language which includes  Arabs, Jews, and others.  anti-Semitic is taken to mean anti-Jewish, so quite possible.  

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1 hour ago, Joe B said:

That's fine, but I still fail to see what your antipathy for BLM has to do with Pope being banned.

From my perspective Pope has been banned for a mistake - he seems to make a lot of these. But at the same time, in my opinion, the Premier League and the EFL are full behind BLM. And I see this movement, or how it is panning out, as systemically racist.

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Agreed - however if the ban is increased, which it could be, then that is an own goal.  A better approach would be to insert a clause into any future contract to any player something along the wording of :-
@If you the player do something on social media that leads you to be banned from playing then you are considered to have made yourself unavailable for work and the club has the right to dock your pay accordingly @   That happens in thousands of other jobs !
The wording may need tarting up a bit - but something along those line should bring home to the Social Media Heroes that everything has a consequence and if that is to the detriment of the club then the player has to cough up.   
Personally, I can't see that working at all. Firstly any sensible social media user either does not connect their accounts to their employer in any way, and for those where the connection is obvious they should put a statement such as "all views my own and are not representative of PVFC" etc.
Secondly what if (as in this case) the punishment is entirely unjust.
I understand that Pope is a serial offender, but equating a certain family with financial dominance is not anti semetic.
Even if you go to the extreme of saying Pope's analogy was stereotyping Jew"s as being financially astute/dominant/affluent, that is still not anti semetic.
I am as lefty and liberal as they come but even I think Popey's unapologetic stance with the FA is justified on this one.
He has been naive and stupid, but a 6 game ban for stupidity? Really?
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1 hour ago, Warren said:

From my perspective Pope has been banned for a mistake - he seems to make a lot of these. But at the same time, in my opinion, the Premier League and the EFL are full behind BLM. And I see this movement, or how it is panning out, as systemically racist.

Hi Warren,  there is already a Black Lives Matter thread,  if you wish to discuss the subject and avoid parallel conversations.

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4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Easily done, A Semite is a speaker of a Semetic language which includes  Arabs, Jews, and others.  anti-Semitic is taken to mean anti-Jewish, so quite possible.  

Why is anti-Semitic not against any speaker of a Semitic language??

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7 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Why is anti-Semitic not against any speaker of a Semitic language??

No reason at all, it is just not taken to be as it is a cover for anti-Jewish which itself can be a cover for anti - Israel . A can of worms which  the UK had a hand in during the 20s. Not really fair to put it on Popey`s shoulders, keeping fit should be his only worry. 

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1 minute ago, Fosse69 said:

No reason at all, it is just not taken to be as it is a cover for anti-Jewish which itself can be a cover for anti - Israel . A can of worms which  the UK had a hand in during the 20s. Not really fair to put it on Popey`s shoulders, keeping fit should be his only worry. 

I agree.  Just wish he did!

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On 29/07/2020 at 16:19, Warren said:

I have not seen the full set of tweets. But saying something about the Rothschild family and their success is not inherently racist. Same as saying something about Warren Buffet isn't racist. What is racist is starting a movement which has not moved on from its title Black Lives Matter to All Lives Matter. Then filling Sky programming with pundits who are from black backgrounds since restart such that it is obvious positive discrimination is taking place. I have had enough of this black people are discriminated thing really. It is difficult to see how the Equality Act 2010 doesn't do exactly what it says on the can. It actually rules out consideration of many relevant factors in order to protect against discrimination and actively permits positive discrimination in some situations of under representation. It's a hard place football below the top stars, and it is hard for everyone not just black people. And so is society. 

 

On 29/07/2020 at 18:00, Warren said:

From my perspective Pope has been banned for a mistake - he seems to make a lot of these. But at the same time, in my opinion, the Premier League and the EFL are full behind BLM. And I see this movement, or how it is panning out, as systemically racist.

Stop digging you're beginning to come over as seeming racist yourself  , perhaps take another seven weeks off this board,  to take a look at yourself  ! 😞     

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4 hours ago, DistantVale said:

 

Stop digging you're beginning to come over as seeming racist yourself  , perhaps take another seven weeks off this board,  to take a look at yourself  ! 😞     

I'm happy with my arguments. If you disagree you can always ignore me. I'm not minded to change my opposition to racism.  

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I was slightly surprised by the severity of the ban given to Pope, I was expecting a ban of 3 or 4 games. It seems his decision to appeal the decision that he was guilty has led to the increased severity. A further appeal could see this increased or reduced. Given the commission stated:
“It is of particular concern that even now Mr Pope does not acknowledge the antisemitic message that is conveyed by the [Tweet]. It is also of concern that he has not seriously questioned the conspiracy theories that he allowed to inform his views”.

I would be worried he is likely to have his ban increased if an appeal is lodged.

It was good that he was found not guilty of being intentionally antisemitic, although that was alway unlikely and I don’t believe there was any malice meant by him.

However, this was never about individual racism. It was about spreading antisemitic lies and myths through a use of the name of the Rothschild bank. For centuries it has been use used as a means of smearing all Jewish people. The Rothschilds have been wrongly accused owning all the banks in world including the Bank of England and US Federal Reserve and that they have profited from wars that they have started! These conspiracy theories are racist and repeating them, even unintentionally or not realising what you are saying is racist. Ignorance of the law has never been a defence.

He was, in my view, always going to found guilty, it was only a question of how big the ban was going to be.

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What I would question slightly is the 'reasonable person' test that they talk about in their findings.

What some of the debate in the last week has shown is that it's touch and go whether The Man On The Clapham Omnibus would know about the Rothschilds and the coded AS.

The man on a PMT bus, even less so.

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What I would question slightly is the 'reasonable person' test that they talk about in their findings.
What some of the debate in the last week has shown is that it's touch and go whether The Man On The Clapham Omnibus would know about the Rothschilds and the coded AS.
The man on a PMT bus, even less so.

The problem for Pope was that the precedent was already in place, it had already been decided who the reasonable person is, therefore it was a battle he was never going to win.
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I think the heart of the problem is that - as several posters have said earlier - ignorance is no defence. 

If you are caught speeding at 120 mph on the toll road it's no good claiming that you didn't know it was 70.

I don't think Pope understood fully what he was posting. And because he's been up before the beak 2-3 times before his past record is already poor, and if they're now saying he was still arguing the toss with them and showing no remorse then he will get the book thrown at him.

We all know that he should have got off Twitter years ago, ignored the WUMs, and focused on his football.

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