onevalefan.co.uk Present Past Specials About Forum
Jump to content
onevalefan.co.uk forum

Advert


Advert


Pope gets six game ban


Smugsy

Recommended Posts

Advert

54 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

sorry Joe but just because some "experts" say referring to Rothschilds is the same as referring to all Jews doesn't make it gospel.

When I think Rothschilds I think corrupt bankers, not Corrupt Jews.  Popes sources are questionable and he was ill advised to post what he did but it was not necessarily anti semitic.  The FA are not the arbitrators of law, just there own rules.  Pope has faced no criminal investigation or prosecution but don't let that water down the offense you have taken on behalf of others.

Its a very grey area, for example, scholars and experts say that being critical of the state of Israel is anti semitic.  I think they are wrong, and further more, there treatment of Palestine is disgraceful.  That makes me anti semetic according to the "experts", what do you think?  Am I anti semetic for criticising Israels treatment of Palastine?

Was Rothschild  a Jewish banker or a banker that was Jewish?  Does not the banking  angle  come from the  moneylenders being expelled from the Temple for charging high rates of interest? Nearly 2000 years ago?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Was Rothschild  a Jewish banker or a banker that was Jewish?  Does not the banking  angle  come from the  moneylenders being expelled from the Temple for charging high rates of interest? Nearly 2000 years ago?

In medieval times the Christian Church condemned usury - the charging of interest on loans, so no one did it.  If you wanted to borrow money you had to go to non-Christians, ie the Jews.  Jewish money lenders were regarded with contempt as a result.  Read "The Merchant of Venice" for the common view of Jews in Shakespeare's time.  It's probably one of the most anti-semitic works of literature in the English language and should have got Shakespeare a 12 game band!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

Does anyone think that this will give the club a decision to make regarding Toms future at the club?

I don't think it will impact, but I think that this could be his last season as a Vale player. 35 in a few weeks.

Don't envisage him being offered another deal for 21/22 at the age of 36 

Great servant who has tarnished things for himself and the club with his stupidity and crass comments. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's quite a lot to unpack from this whole affair and much of it won't be obvious to a lot of people, not just because Stoke-on-Trent isn't known for having a large Jewish community, but also because by it's very nature  Anti-semitism is quite often far less clearcut than other forms of abuse, and this is usually by design.

A lot of anti-semitism relies on oblique language, stereotypes, clichés or 'tropes'. Many people who use this shorthand know exactly what they are hinting at. It's a dog whistle. It's also ambiguous enough for them to be able to plausibly deny it if they ever get accused of being anti-semitic. But amongst like minded people,  if you know, you know. Nudge nudge etc.

On the other hand there are people who, perhaps, have a drink, get a bit opinionated, read far too many conspiracy theories on the internet on their afternoons off and repeat what they've seen without fully understanding its context. I suspect Pope falls into the latter category. And because it's complicated and he doesn't understand why it's wrong, he stands his ground. Maybe he should have gone on the course before he appeared at the hearing.

I don't particularly want to defend Pope on here, his record on social media is dreadful, his 'banter' is cringeworthy and he needed to put a sock in it a long time ago. But footballers aren't generally the sharpest tools in the box and a lot of them could get suckered into saying the wrong thing very easily. Fines like these are quite often a tax on a player's lack of intelligence.

However, this case is out of the ordinary and I would have liked to see the FA tribunal take a bit more time to consider the effects of their judgement. The reaction on here from some at the punishment: bemusement, disbelief, a bit of anger, underlines the lack of understanding by some of the wider fanbase about the nuances of anti-semitism. They had to wheel an academic into the hearing to explain the subtext behind the Rothschild trope, so what chance do the rest of us have? The punishment also risks emboldening the PC-gone-mad brigade and create a feeling of resentment towards those who are earnestly trying to eradicate racism from the game. 

The FA had the opportunity to educate us all about one of the more insidious forms of racism that exists in society. Instead they just got the ban hammer out and I think that could turn out to be counter productive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, darren1810 said:

I don't think it will impact, but I think that this could be his last season as a Vale player. 35 in a few weeks.

Don't envisage him being offered another deal for 21/22 at the age of 36 

Great servant who has tarnished things for himself and the club with his stupidity and crass comments. 

 

Darren I completely agree with you and for a couple of seasons together with Brown they helped us to retain our league status. Tom will be a top earner at the club and into his last season so I’ll be surprised if a new contract is put on the table. IMO I hope that Toms place isn’t in jeopardy, especially with Cullens fitness and Rodney being an unknown quantity at this stage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Stand you in good stead as a teacher that will Joe.

Yeah if you could stop using my job to have a dig at me mate, that'd be great. Bit weird.

Thankfully, teenagers are far easier to engage with than some on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Santa said:

There's quite a lot to unpack from this whole affair and much of it won't be obvious to a lot of people, not just because Stoke-on-Trent isn't known for having a large Jewish community, but also because by it's very nature  Anti-semitism is quite often far less clearcut than other forms of abuse, and this is usually by design.

A lot of anti-semitism relies on oblique language, stereotypes, clichés or 'tropes'. Many people who use this shorthand know exactly what they are hinting at. It's a dog whistle. It's also ambiguous enough for them to be able to plausibly deny it if they ever get accused of being anti-semitic. But amongst like minded people,  if you know, you know. Nudge nudge etc.

On the other hand there are people who, perhaps, have a drink, get a bit opinionated, read far too many conspiracy theories on the internet on their afternoons off and repeat what they've seen without fully understanding its context. I suspect Pope falls into the latter category. And because it's complicated and he doesn't understand why it's wrong, he stands his ground. Maybe he should have gone on the course before he appeared at the hearing.

I don't particularly want to defend Pope on here, his record on social media is dreadful, his 'banter' is cringeworthy and he needed to put a sock in it a long time ago. But footballers aren't generally the sharpest tools in the box and a lot of them could get suckered into saying the wrong thing very easily. Fines like these are quite often a tax on a player's lack of intelligence.

However, this case is out of the ordinary and I would have liked to see the FA tribunal take a bit more time to consider the effects of their judgement. The reaction on here from some at the punishment: bemusement, disbelief, a bit of anger, underlines the lack of understanding by some of the wider fanbase about the nuances of anti-semitism. They had to wheel an academic into the hearing to explain the subtext behind the Rothschild trope, so what chance do the rest of us have? The punishment also risks emboldening the PC-gone-mad brigade and create a feeling of resentment towards those who are earnestly trying to eradicate racism from the game. 

The FA had the opportunity to educate us all about one of the more insidious forms of racism that exists in society. Instead they just got the ban hammer out and I think that could turn out to be counter productive.

Fully agree. The lack of clear communication as to why this was a punishable offence is a big balls up.

I had to read the entire report to gain an understanding; before that, I too was critical of the punishment. 

I still don't think an appeal gains anything bar possible a slight reduction in games banned (for what will be a backup forward) and lots of negative national press.

Its clear this is a controversial topic and one none of us are well-informed enough about to truly form an accurate judgement upon. For the sake of the club, fanbase, and Pope, for me it is best to take the punishment, get him on a re-education course, and lie low.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Reporting Posts and other information

    Rules - This forum is moderated but the admin team don't read everything. Don't assume we'll spot rule breaking and alert us by reporting content. Logged in users can hover over the post and click the orange button. Guests can contact us here. If you don't get on with another user you can "ignore" them. Click this link, type in their username and click save. Please check with the admin team if you wish to sell/auction any items. We're happy to support good causes but check first.

    Use - This forum may not be suitable for all as it may contain words or phrases not considered appropriate for some. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and could face legal action should it contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. Please do not reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: phone number, address or email address). This forum is not in any way affiliated with Port Vale FC. OVF reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. If you spot an offensive post please report it to the admin team (instructions are above).

    Adverts - This site occasionally a) has adverts and sponsored features about gambling b) accepts sponsored posts from third parties. If you require help and advice on gambling read these links: Information on protecting young people | Addiction help from gambleaware.co.uk
  • Friends of OVF

×
×
  • Create New...