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Pay rise for Public Sector Workers ?


Mario

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7 hours ago, Mario said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53478404?fbclid=IwAR36OtdUO7XAZn3pZxX3NwSDDkXyp54CuGAFfp2AP3aTGzf7C-TCtqFvsvs

What have Dentists done to deserve a pay rise ? And Teachers have done everything they can to obstruct going back to work.

A lot in the sector have had the equivalent of a pay decrease for about 7 years. Most have been working since lockdown and through holidays. It’s sad that some people’s like to take aim at public servants but don’t have an issue with private sector bonuses etc. These pay rises were needed regardless of the pandemic. And they still don’t make up for the real terms decrease over the last 7 years. 

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39 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

So a NQT will be paid £24K min.  Can work a max of 1265 hours over 195 days which is an average of 6.5 hours a day which is an hourly rate of over £18.  170 days off, take away the weekends thats 66 Days holiday, less Bank Holidays, thats 58 days holiday a year....

So 24K a year, max of 6.5 hours a day on average with 38 days holiday more than the average person - and thats for newbies!   They must be really struggling.

Why aren’t you pursuing a career in teaching if it’s such a cushy number?

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10 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Joe, teachers unions have been very obstructive.  One lady who represents one of the unions has been on the radio a few times and if she represented me in any way I would be embarrassed.  Whilst many front line workers have been subjected to all levels of risk to keep the wheels turning.  Teachers unions have consistently demanded that there should be no return until the government can guarantee that schools are covid safe and yet refuse to define what that actually means.  Basically, teachers can go the boozer, go shopping and all those risks are fine but its not fine to be in a school.  Even now there is still dissent about schools reopening in September.

Maybe trachers are not the problem but your unions are.

This pay rise is a thinly veiled attempt to circumvent your unions and appeal to the trachers directly.

Why have many schools not put on zoom lessons whilst private schools were doing it from day one?  

Why are teachers not actually marking the work being submitted?

I know what the answers were from the Union boss and she made herself look a right plank.  I heard it myself with my own ears.

I know many teachers and they have lapped this up.  You may not be like that but please don't try any paint the profession as a bastion of the effort to educate the kids during the pandemic because it hasn't happened.  I have kids who have had work set and its been pathetic.  Next to no effort at all.  Sorry of this doesn't fit with your rose tinted view of your chosen profession.

Good luck with your career.  You will need it with this government at the helm.

Also as a teacher I would advise you to stop entering into political debate on public forums, it could well cause you problems in your career at some point.  Take that or leave it.

Edited because I cba arguing with people who form views on all teachers via anecdotal experience/one radio interview with a unionist.

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49 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

So a NQT will be paid £24K min.  Can work a max of 1265 hours over 195 days which is an average of 6.5 hours a day which is an hourly rate of over £18.  170 days off, take away the weekends thats 66 Days holiday, less Bank Holidays, thats 58 days holiday a year....

So 24K a year, max of 6.5 hours a day on average with 38 days holiday more than the average person - and thats for newbies!   They must be really struggling.

Edited because I cba arguing with someone who think teachers turn up at 9 and leave at 3:30 (maximum!!!! hahahahahhaha) and never work a day in the holidays.

You genuinely have zero idea of what teaching is like. Not a clue, mate. 

The debates on here are fun but I am becoming a bit tired of the lack of informed comments being made. 

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

So a NQT will be paid £24K min.  Can work a max of 1265 hours over 195 days which is an average of 6.5 hours a day which is an hourly rate of over £18.  170 days off, take away the weekends thats 66 Days holiday, less Bank Holidays, thats 58 days holiday a year....

So 24K a year, max of 6.5 hours a day on average with 38 days holiday more than the average person - and thats for newbies!   They must be really struggling.

Hahaha, are you one of these types that think Teachers get 6 weeks summer holiday and 6 extra weeks off a year on top of that? My wife worked until midnight every single night, Saturday and Sunday and worked all through the summer too when we were in the UK. I made her quit as it was making her ill. A brilliant teacher lost to targets from people like the clueless <ovf censored> Gove. 

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57 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

I have loads of examples over the years, many may more than you, of dealing with teachers and your Rose tinted view of the profession will soon have you cringing.  There are some good teachers who go above and beyond but they are getting less and less.  Back in my day teachers had previously worked in other sectors, lots of ex military for example.  They had life experience before they turned to teaching and it showed, its showed in how the kids were turned out from the schools.  These days many teachers never leave school, and the kids they turn out are unemployable at 16.  One question I ask potential apprentices between 16 and 19 is "tell me about Wales"...  I am not making it up when I tell you that 60% of them think its a county in England.  Now you tell me how a kid of 16 to 19, goes through school not knowing Wales is a country in its own right and try to tell me teachers are the bastion of education.

Joe, you have alot to learn kid.

To be honest I think your description of past and present teachers is quite the reverse of my experience. When I started in the profession in the late 70s (after doing a proper job for some years) I encountered a number of colleagues who were 9 to 3.30 merchants. They had no one controlling what they taught - no external review of their work. There was no such thing as a national curriculum and any review of their performance in examination outcomes accepted far lower standards than what is required now.  The only paperwork they did was to mark the odd book giving everyone 7 out of 10 and writing a one line report at the end of the year. One of my colleagues used to write one of four words on a report - poor, fair, good or excellent.  Contrast that with today’s expectations from teachers and their total lack of any meaningful sanctions on pupils and those staff didn’t know they were born. 

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3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I think it is obviously a lottery of which schools you look at and how they are run and what standards they demand.

I don't like the OFSTED approach as it doesn't measure progress.  It doesn't give the starting point only the result which is unfair.  A school pulling its students from a prosperous catchment will do better than a school pulling from a deprived area.  Getting a student capable of getting an A to get that A is good, but getting a student who is expected to get an E to get a D shows better teaching skills in my opinion.

I could have taught my daughter, she reads something, gets it and excels.  The school crow about it but its not that big of an achievement for them.  My lad however has the ability to achieve top grades but the application to fail.  They are failing with him because he isn't reaching his potential, so whilst its deemed an excellent school its only there because the kids they pull from are generally more advantaged.  The teachers don't do the hard yards at that school with the kids falling short, its a common complaint amongst the parents that they visibly concentrate on the academicly gifted and leave the rest to flounder.   That's not dedication, that's taking an easy ride.

Does that make sense?

 

That's simply wrong.  OFSTED does examine progress which is why "coasting" schools get done by them.  The attainment of pupils is measured when they enter high school and again at 16+.  A school which only achieves A grades from pupils who should get A grades will not be judged to as performed as well as the school which gets D grades from those predicted to get E.  Sorry about using old money for the grades - I know it's 1 to 9 now.

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On 22/07/2020 at 18:11, Nofinikea said:

Right, well that's news.  The way its presented doesn't seem that way.  Maybe I am confusing it with league tables.  Although that seems at odds with the Offsted rating the school excellent or whatever it is when its a common compliant amongst parents that the kids aren't being pushed enough.

Biggest problem is the parents not pushing the kids enough not the teachers.

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3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Last time I checked the parents weren't allowed in school.

Kids need to be mentored by parents and taught many more things than teachers can teach. There are good and bad teachers, always have been. Personally I agree with the pay increase as teachers have not had a pay increase above inflation for 7 years, mainly down to the Labour Government creating a large increase in public sector workers pay against similar jobs in the private sector. What I disagree with is the large payments the Government offer to new teachers just to start teaching in many cases they take up teaching, take the £20k or so and leave within a year. There is a shortage of teachers with many good experienced teachers leaving because of the extra demands every year, the Government should focus on retaining these people rather than bringing new ones in to replace them.

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On 22/07/2020 at 09:47, Nofinikea said:

Also, thats a starting salary. The average salary is £37500.  I would bloody expect them to work damn hard for that kind of money.  You have to graft in the private sector for anything like that pay with the annual leave and pensions teachers get.

 

No it’s not. For a teacher the average pay is just over £30k

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Teacher/Salary

 

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On 22/07/2020 at 11:13, Nofinikea said:

I think it is obviously a lottery of which schools you look at and how they are run and what standards they demand.

I don't like the OFSTED approach as it doesn't measure progress.  It doesn't give the starting point only the result which is unfair.  A school pulling its students from a prosperous catchment will do better than a school pulling from a deprived area.  Getting a student capable of getting an A to get that A is good, but getting a student who is expected to get an E to get a D shows better teaching skills in my opinion.

I could have taught my daughter, she reads something, gets it and excels.  The school crow about it but its not that big of an achievement for them.  My lad however has the ability to achieve top grades but the application to fail.  They are failing with him because he isn't reaching his potential, so whilst its deemed an excellent school its only there because the kids they pull from are generally more advantaged.  The teachers don't do the hard yards at that school with the kids falling short, its a common complaint amongst the parents that they visibly concentrate on the academicly gifted and leave the rest to flounder.   That's not dedication, that's taking an easy ride.

Does that make sense?

 

Wrong again

http://daisi.education/how-does-the-dfe-and-ofsted-measure-progress-at-key-stage-1/

 

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