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25 minutes ago, tisdeano said:


Well if you are going to use stats in an odd crusade against a player at least get them right

Not the first time hes made himself look a plonker with the wrong information with the weird agenda against Pope. Oh well, I'm sure there will be another stat that can used instead.

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Nothing wrong with getting just a little carried away at the moment,  as long as we all remember that it's The Vale we're talking about. But then again this is the New Vale and it feels amazing,  even

People make me laugh on this website , slagging a player off who wants to play for port Vale while lording over Maynard who doesn't . Seen his you tube interview where he states he and the club are in

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9 minutes ago, Tean Vale said:

Although he's way above our wage structure, just seen that Marcus Maddison is looking for a club after being released from Peterborough...

Beggars cant be choosers and all that!

 

 

I'm sure I read he was off the America. Could be wrong but it was definitely a Peterborough forward.

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23 hours ago, JRC said:

I've seen Ironside 3 times I think. He didn't score that many goals last season. His general hold up play was the best I saw in this league. Depends what you want up front.

 

If you’re only playing one up front like we do, then the forward would have to do more than just be a very good hold up player. The wingers at Vale tend to stay be wide and not come inside so it puts a lot of pressure on the midfield lads to get up and score goals. That’s what Jake Taylor did very well last season. We’ve lost his goals now and energy so we need someone to chip in with goals from there and also Amoo and Worrall to score 10/12 between them. It’ll be interesting to see what Askey goes with in the league but it depends on how fit Cullen is for me. If he’s fit then he starts. 

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22 hours ago, PV1973 said:

Lets not play the victim eh.... you know what you were doing there by dissecting a previous point on the number of goals to pick out a negative in there, so let’s not pretend you weren’t doing anything else but taking a positive and turning it into a dig. 

If you rely on stats to make your point, you can't really argue if somebody else does the same - that's the beauty / ugliness of stats! Personally, I don't see Pope featuring much before Christmas - he looked off the pace against Rochdale, and will miss 6(?) matches, in which you would hope that Cullen /Robinson and/or Rodney will make themselves immovable from the position? Pope, along with the other 1 or 2 strikers on the bench will be great for game-changing, as they're all different and have different strengths.   In theory, anybody could have taken his penalties, and scored them - Conlon certainly showed bags of confidence with his couple, so Pope's actual contribution wasn't huge - yes, he scored and probably had some assists...he also missed where others may not, so that perhaps balances out. I'm sure opposition defences will still be wary of him, based on his past reputation, but that will diminish with time. 

I have to say, I think Pope's career is drawing to a close, unless he remains in Lge 2 for a couple more seasons. If we get promoted to Lge 1 I don't see him being an essential squad member. It's a shame - it happens to every player, eventually...even Gareth Barry! I'm not a Pope knocker - just a realist, and massively grateful for his goals with us, over the years. And I hope he proves me wrong!!

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I think thats fair assessment.

I suspect it will be horses for courses this year as our strikers are all a little different. I see Pope as 3rd/4th choice depending on how Rodney develops. Its going to be a really nice in game management decision for JA to either bring on pace against a tiring defence to hit them on the counter or Pope to hold up the ball.

I do think Pope would be very effective if we play with 2 up top with all 3 of our strikers so is a good choice if we are chasing a game. Pope's presence alone could cause panic. A great option to have. This season will probably be his last in a Vale shirt,I just hope he can finish it off with another promotion.

 

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33 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

He is the only one of our strikers who was nominated for striker of the tournament in the FA Cup, is the whole country deluded or is he better than some Vale fans give him credit for?

I think that was more notoriety for his banter with Man City...Although what a header and great team goal.

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30 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

He is the only one of our strikers who was nominated for striker of the tournament in the FA Cup, is the whole country deluded or is he better than some Vale fans give him credit for?

Regardless of anyones opinion nobody seriously believes Tom was even in the top 20 FA Cup strikers last season. A very small nominating Committee put him forward because the tweets about scoring against Stones and then scoring was just a fantastic story.

I think there is little doubt Pope is a diminished striker from the one who rejoined the club. The hope is he has one more season in him. 

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Regardless of anyones opinion nobody seriously believes Tom was even in the top 20 FA Cup strikers last season. A very small nominating Committee put him forward because the tweets about scoring against Stones and then scoring was just a fantastic story.
I think there is little doubt Pope is a diminished striker from the one who rejoined the club. The hope is he has one more season in him. 

Plus the hattrick against Cheltenham

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1 hour ago, LancyTony said:

If you rely on stats to make your point, you can't really argue if somebody else does the same - that's the beauty / ugliness of stats! Personally, I don't see Pope featuring much before Christmas - he looked off the pace against Rochdale, and will miss 6(?) matches, in which you would hope that Cullen /Robinson and/or Rodney will make themselves immovable from the position? Pope, along with the other 1 or 2 strikers on the bench will be great for game-changing, as they're all different and have different strengths.   In theory, anybody could have taken his penalties, and scored them - Conlon certainly showed bags of confidence with his couple, so Pope's actual contribution wasn't huge - yes, he scored and probably had some assists...he also missed where others may not, so that perhaps balances out. I'm sure opposition defences will still be wary of him, based on his past reputation, but that will diminish with time. 

I have to say, I think Pope's career is drawing to a close, unless he remains in Lge 2 for a couple more seasons. If we get promoted to Lge 1 I don't see him being an essential squad member. It's a shame - it happens to every player, eventually...even Gareth Barry! I'm not a Pope knocker - just a realist, and massively grateful for his goals with us, over the years. And I hope he proves me wrong!!

The original point (originally made by someone else) about the amount of goals our strikers scored ended up being countered by an inaccurate stat about Popes goals last season in the league. Does it really matter if any of our goals come from a set piece or not? No one was complaining when the late peno at Stevenage went in or the opening goal against Colchester. Following a season where we created many more chances and (I think) scored more goals and in general looked more of a threat there’s always someone on here who is looking for the negative or someone to be a scapegoat (that’s not directed at you @LancyTony btw). 
 

I agree with you about the striking options we have, I’m really looking forward to seeing how the 2 new strikers fit in. We already know what Cullen and Pope can do. Of course Pope is getting to the end of his career and I think even last season when he didn’t score as many that he was still a strong option in terms of being that target man to hold it up and buy us time when we were under pressure, because Bennett was absolutely useless at that side of the game IMO and the ball kept coming back too easily with him in the side. Equally I think Cullen was good in that role too. We know that with Pope in the side that teams can push high because he will never have the pace to latch on to a ball. but what I’d like to see with these 2 new strikers is something different, a striker with pace that can play off the shoulder of centre halves and latch on to through balls and genuinely frighten opposition defences.

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22 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

He did score against Manchester City though, at their ground, in front of a lot of fans. How many league 2 strikers would have the ability to do that?

Luke Matheson, a 17 year old defender from Rochdale scored against Man Utd last season. That was also a good story. Tom Pope's legacy at Vale is 100 plus goals. Every year players from lower leagues score a goal against the big teams. It's a memory moment not a career defining moment. His career reflects he has been a very good player for the club. Plenty of good, average and poor players have scored against big teams in one-off cup games. All league 2 forwards stand a chance of scoring in those circumstances. What made it news was how he predicted and the coverage that got before the game. That did make it pretty unique.

21 minutes ago, PVFC_4_EVA said:


Plus the hattrick against Cheltenham

Other players scored FA cup hat-tricks. The big story was the City goal and he wouldn't have been nominated without it.

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37 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

I fail to see why some stats which reflect 3 games over a season have much bearing on Pope's career or 2019/20 season. Its as stupid as pulling out his run of 11 games run after the first game without a goal as evidence he had a dreadful season. 

Even in terms of the relevance of the stats, it was a cup competition and we were in the unusual situation of playing 3 away games. All our players have the joint worst records on the home tab. 

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I fail to see why some stats which reflect 3 games over a season have much bearing on Pope's career or 2019/20 season. Its as stupid as pulling out his run of 11 games run after the first game without a goal as evidence he had a dreadful season. 
Even in terms of the relevance of the stats, it was a cup competition and we were in the unusual situation of playing 3 away games. All our players have the joint worst records on the home tab. 
It's a twisted stat pulled to turn a negative into a positive. I'm sure pv1973 would agree that is completely the wrong thing to do.

Final point from me on this whole debate then I'll leave it for now. If we signed a striker with pope's record last season would the pope defenders simply say 'oh, he scored 11 last season' or would they pull out all of the stats that they could to paint a clearer picture of the tally? I think we all know the answer if we're being honest.
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16 minutes ago, philmpv said:

It's a twisted stat pulled to turn a negative into a positive. I'm sure pv1973 would agree that is completely the wrong thing to do.

Final point from me on this whole debate then I'll leave it for now. If we signed a striker with pope's record last season would the pope defenders simply say 'oh, he scored 11 last season' or would they pull out all of the stats that they could to paint a clearer picture of the tally? I think we all know the answer if we're being honest.

If we signed Tom Pope today I'd say nothing different to what I've said earlier. Has been a very good player. Not quite as good as he was. Hopefully at 35 he has one last good season in him.

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