Black Lives Matter

[Andyregs]

19 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

of course i have watched the video. You are basically accusing me of being a liar, i should watch your step very carefully as you are clearing implying this but not stupid enough to actually say those words

And I’ve been pretty clear from the start that I thought you were mistaking it for the example I suggested. In the same that there was reports of a man being dragged out of his car and beaten up in America, he was even interview by police. Then videos came out showing him with a bow and arrow towards protestors, and he was arrested. 

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Do you believe that there isn't an issue with the way US police treat black people in America?

There is an issue with how police treat people. In the US and many other places, including the UK. There seems to be a disproportionate number of black people involved in the abuse.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Do you believe the issue is worse if you are African American?

It appears to be worse if you are not white.

[Iron Curtain]

1 minute ago, geosname said:

It's a possibility, some have been killed for less.

Would you say it was:

a) A higher possibility that a white person would have been murdered

b) A Lower possibility

c) The same possibility

 

Darren has posted a good article earlier that will give you the answer.

 

There is zero point arguing whether black people are treated worse at the hands of the US police. They are, the numbers back it up so I don't really understand the point of the counter arguments.

IF the point is that it doesn't deserve the protests then that's not your place to say as a white bloke in the UK who hasnt suffered their plight.

IF the point is that the Protests have gone to far in some areas, then I agree... but it shows the passion running through the people who have suffered that plight. Add to that some idiots that just love a riot and its a shame.

 

[Iron Curtain]

2 minutes ago, geosname said:

It appears to be worse if you are not white.

And that's why those who are not white are a little bit miffed... they have had enough. Its gone on too long. The outcomes of that "apparent worse treatment if you are not white" has been deaths, wrongful imprisonment and subjugation.

 

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Do you believe:

a) US police dont play by the rules and are equally bad independent of race and colour

b) US police dont play by the rules and that issue is worse if the person they are dealing with is African American

c) US police dont play by the rules and that issue is worse if the person they are dealing with is White

 

 

The police don't play by the rules..... no matter what race you may be..... but they do seem to target black people more than any other group.

[Andyregs]

25 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

of course i have watched the video. You are basically accusing me of being a liar, i should watch your step very carefully as you are clearing implying this but not stupid enough to actually say those words

Ran out of time to edit: I was talking about the George Floyd video here, not whatever the other one is. 

[geosname]

5 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Would you say it was:

a) A higher possibility that a white person would have been murdered

b) A Lower possibility

c) The same possibility

 

Darren has posted a good article earlier that will give you the answer.

 

There is zero point arguing whether black people are treated worse at the hands of the US police. They are, the numbers back it up so I don't really understand the point of the counter arguments.

IF the point is that it doesn't deserve the protests then that's not your place to say as a white bloke in the UK who hasnt suffered their plight.

IF the point is that the Protests have gone to far in some areas, then I agree... but it shows the passion running through the people who have suffered that plight. Add to that some idiots that just love a riot and its a shame.

 

The point is none of the above......

The point I'm clumsily trying to make is that if all the protesters protested every event as they have this it creates more of a one voice movement. That in itself has far reaching consequences.... it could create a bigger groundswell that the "establishment" could not ignore without serious consequences.

[geosname]

17 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

 as a white bloke in the UK 

 

I'm not.

[geosname]

16 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

And that's why those who are not white are a little bit miffed... they have had enough. Its gone on too long. The outcomes of that "apparent worse treatment if you are not white" has been deaths, wrongful imprisonment and subjugation.

 

Of course they are miffed...... I'm miffed every time I read/see a case of police abusing their power, no matter who the recipient is.

The only way to stop that abuse is for all the people to unite and protest every case, whatever the victims colour, race, religion etc etc.

Surely the goal should be to stop the abuse not simply reduce the number of black victims to a proportionate level.

The fly in the ointment is of course the people who think that black people are somehow "different" or should be treated differently.... I would hope the number of sane people would overwhelm them by volume.

[Iron Curtain]

28 minutes ago, geosname said:

I'm not.

Apologies... an assumption from my side.

Would you mind me asking which Bit of that I assumed incorrectly?

[Joe B]

Seen Minneapolis have voted to re-define how they police their city.

They want to divert funds away from front-line policy, arresting, and jailing, and invest more in preventative, long-term measures, such as counselling for mental illness and having addiction experts involved in drug cases. The cycle of poverty, mental health issues, school exclusion, social exclusion, and crime is long-documented and is irrefutable; obviously some crime is not a result of these issues, but a lot of it is. 

In my view, a brave and long-overdue reform.

[Joe B]

Will also make a controversial comment; I have no issue with the dumping into the docks of a statue venerating a slave owner, who was complicit in the deaths of thousands of slaves in transit, and thousands more once they'd been sold in the United States.

People have been trying to democratically and legally remove/alter the monument for years, to no avail. 

And to those who argue 'he invested in schools and societal good', he did, using money created through the abduction, transit, and sale of human beings. So whilst the end product may have been good for a few people in Bristol, are those ends really justifiable if thousands of people were drowned in the Atlantic/sold like cattle at market into a torturous existence? In my view, no. 

[philpvfc]

9 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Seen Minneapolis have voted to re-define how they police their city.

They want to divert funds away from front-line policy, arresting, and jailing, and invest more in preventative, long-term measures, such as counselling for mental illness and having addiction experts involved in drug cases. The cycle of poverty, mental health issues, school exclusion, social exclusion, and crime is long-documented and is irrefutable; obviously some crime is not a result of these issues, but a lot of it is. 

In my view, a brave and long-overdue reform.

Good idea, will be interesting to see if it reduces crime. Could be the way forward for not just American states but for the U.K. as well.

[philpvfc]

7 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Will also make a controversial comment; I have no issue with the dumping into the docks of a statue venerating a slave owner, who was complicit in the deaths of thousands of slaves in transit, and thousands more once they'd been sold in the United States.

People have been trying to democratically and legally remove/alter the monument for years, to no avail. 

And to those who argue 'he invested in schools and societal good', he did, using money created through the abduction, transit, and sale of human beings. So whilst the end product may have been good for a few people in Bristol, are those ends really justifiable if thousands of people were drowned in the Atlantic/sold like cattle at market into a torturous existence? In my view, no. 

Don’t disagree with the statue being removed but not the way it was. It was due to be reviewed about now anyway with last time it was put to the vote there was a small majority to have the statue remain. I hope those who did it get charged but will be surprised if they do and they will be martyrs to many if they are anyway.