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Black Lives Matter


Joe B

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1 hour ago, darren1810 said:

Oh pass me the tissues.

Rob Rob personal abuse oh disgraceful I'd better report this .

Oh no hang on I'll grow a pair and dismiss the comment . 

Darren

you asked me a specific question on “Black on Black” knife crime.

Have you watched the video yet?

im serious, I would be fascinated to know your views on it?

No slanging matches, no name calling, let’s just have a proper chat about this because it’s the question you wanted answering and this is really good discussion on the topic. 

 

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15 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Why is branding the 95% as black hoodlums not racist?  Why weren't the 5% white people (his stats not mine) also branded as hoodlums?

I personally think there is a Difference between Racism and Unconcious bias.

People have engrained in them from  An early ages views on groups That are different from them, based on their upbringing, TV shows, the news.... they are deeply engrained in our brains which are chemically designed to be wary of different things.

I posted this test a while ago and not a single person even mentioned it.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html
 

It’s a Harvard test that shows your UNCONSCIOUS biases against different groups, old people, obese people, black people, homosexual people.

It’s shows your preference for one group over another.... It DOES NOT show you as racist if you have a preference For one over another. But shows the deep deep bias in your brain.

We did it at work and the guy who I know who is the most none racist equality fighting person showed an UNCONSCIOUS preference towards white people. He rightly pointed out that he knew it was there deep down so had worked harder to override it and see things differently and learn things. 

You can skip all the questions and it takes 5 mins.

My guess is lots and lots and lots of people will have an UNCONSCIOUS bias Against black people because we were brought up in a country that had that as an undertone for a long time.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Dave, just take a breath and relax... I’m not having a go, I’m genuinely interested as to this point. I don’t get what you meant to say.

no i'm fine, just wishing you a good coffee experience,

as to the post, just addressing WV's post, but still can't understand how the lardies got into the conversation...

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1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Darren

you asked me a specific question on “Black on Black” knife crime.

Have you watched the video yet?

im serious, I would be fascinated to know your views on it?

No slanging matches, no name calling, let’s just have a proper chat about this because it’s the question you wanted answering and this is really good discussion on the topic. 

 

Yes it's an insightful video and very eloquently put especially when motor mouth was constantly talking over him. 

This whole debate has got people hot under the collar that's for sure. 

It's easy for me to write oh I love Robbie Earle, Darren Beckford, Amoo, JMW etc but it's irrelevant to me . I love all Vale players apart from Martin Paterson .

I have one black mate as I've said before, I lived next to a black guy and his wife until I left home. His son still lives there and I've never heard a bad word against him. As you have previously said that's not to say that they have not received prejudice. 

I am certainly far from uneducated and no way am I racist. If I heard abuse at a game I'd intervene myself. Are my views skewed by the media, probably, but it works both ways. 

Society is going down the pan only last night Asian community were attacking each other with cricket bats and locally a white person attacked someone with a weapon in Chesterton. 

My honest opinion on this debate is that myself and a few others have been patronised at times purely because we don't agree. It has all got rather silly and I'll hold my hands up I'm complicit.

I said I wouldn't post again after someone basically tried to get me banned for their interpretation of a comment however then that defeats the object. 

Can I see the issues Black people face, of course I can and society seems frozen in a time warp. 

But I do not agree with The BLM movement spiralling into anarchy and rebellion. It's been hijacked and sadly now getting out of control. 

That's my opinion. Not a fact . 

 

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3 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Yes it's an insightful video and very eloquently put especially when motor mouth was constantly talking over him. 

This whole debate has got people hot under the collar that's for sure. 

It's easy for me to write oh I love Robbie Earle, Darren Beckford, Amoo, JMW etc but it's irrelevant to me . I love all Vale players apart from Martin Paterson .

I have one black mate as I've said before, I lived next to a black guy and his wife until I left home. His son still lives there and I've never heard a bad word against him. As you have previously said that's not to say that they have not received prejudice. 

I am certainly far from uneducated and no way am I racist. If I heard abuse at a game I'd intervene myself. Are my views skewed by the media, probably, but it works both ways. 

Society is going down the pan only last night Asian community were attacking each other with cricket bats and locally a white person attacked someone with a weapon in Chesterton. 

My honest opinion on this debate is that myself and a few others have been patronised at times purely because we don't agree. It has all got rather silly and I'll hold my hands up I'm complicit.

I said I wouldn't post again after someone basically tried to get me banned for their interpretation of a comment however then that defeats the object. 

Can I see the issues Black people face, of course I can and society seems frozen in a time warp. 

But I do not agree with The BLM movement spiralling into anarchy and rebellion. It's been hijacked and sadly now getting out of control. 

That's my opinion. Not a fact . 

 

Decent post that, no arguments from me! 

I think point art of the problem is we are all missing the football! 😂

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14 hours ago, WV said:

Why are the knuckle draggers so offended by the BLM movement? If they dont want to support it that's ok but why protest against a protest that doesn't involve them ? Are they the same people that say there should be a straight pride if there is a gay pride? To think at least one of them works in education too. Scary. And they are the most likely to call others snowflakes. Absolute throwbacks. 

Well,perhaps it may have something to do with some people not agreeing with protesters who cause criminal damage by pulling down statues and defacing war memorials?

Everyone is allowed to be offended you know.

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I would also just say that false accusations of racism in political arguments is also a massive part of the problem. It increases racial tensions and divides racial groups more.

 

Something being described as "subtle" or "unconscious" as a euphamism for being unable to be qunatified or even to prove it's existence, does not mean it exists. Pretending that we're able to see our opponents "unconscious" bias is disingenuous. Pretending that we can see our own is not helpful.

 

I don't believe for one second that Darren was being racist. There's a very long and sad history on this forum of false accusations of racism unfortunately, so how can we differentiate legitimate accusations against illegetimate accusations, especially when the definition seems to change on a weekly basis, coincidentally, always to allow the same politically inclinced people to engage in something which they've previously claimed was racist.

 

Honesty should apply to both sides of the political divide. We need traditional left wingers to be honest about their progressive comrades. We need the progressives to stop the outright lies and race baiting. We need the liberals and the traditional right wingers to then be open to an honest discussion.

 

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55 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

With all that in mind I think you, as do we all, need to consider the language we use when talking about these things. 

The colour of there skin had no relevance to the hoodlum comment but you linked them.  You did not make the same link between white people and there behaviour.

That's the problem, when white people cause problems they are not described with there colour in the language used around the behaviour.  When black people cause problems, there colour is used in the language chosen to describe there behaviour.

It might be subtle, but it's there and its racist.

Until we are all honest and admit it, this wont go away.

I agree however in the bigger context, the media always describe footballers as black or the music industry ?

You never hear them say White England player Harry Kane has scored a hat trick, but say Sterling they emphasise the black. 

I can honestly say and it's your prerogative not to believe me,  that David Amoo or Leon Legge are not black in my eyes. They are just blokes who play for my team. 

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Bias is part of life and decision making, it's the bits you add on that cause the problem.

I wont buy a Ford car, not because the sails person is a particular race or religion. Simply because everyone I've owned was a shed..... so I'm biased against Ford.

I don't like the cold so I live where it's warm.... it's a bias.

2 shops selling the same product, one 10% cheaper than the other..... which ever one you buy it shows bias... for one and against the other, even if it's just the pricing structure.

There is little wrong with bias..... until you add something to it

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I'm long enough in the tooth to of heard chants at games and joined in with a few ( not racist ones ) .

But i've shouted you Fat B at people ( Steve Evans springs to mind )  and that old bizarre one i've heard sang numerous times Gypo Gypo to people with long hair !!! that one has always baffled me to be honest.

But in context to this thread i have never heard the term White B , whereas you are right Black B seems acceptable.

And it might of been IC ages ago on about the abuse Amoo gets as he is perceived as lazy, is that again a stereotype as with JMW ? Stats and performances have shown him to be one of our best players of the last decade in his stint here yet he is deemed lazy ( JMW ) 

 

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so its Friday, weekend in front of us, pubs open legally in 8days, and with the mind wandering as at my age it does, the thought struck me, when we do get back up the Vale, and we get the usual idiot refing what do we shout at him "whos the barsteward in the opposite to white"...?

also what a wasted opportunity if during the last  3 months, the FA have not had all the refs in and grilled the rules of the noble game into their thick heads...(err can I say that in these pc times.?).

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

You are right.  However as the video that IC posted the things you mention are linking colour with a positive thing. 

I know it sounds on a basic level like they want the best of both worlds but the reality isnt like that.  We never link white in a negative context and so there is no need to link white in a positive one.  

Maybe in a few generations we will just have footballers and on the flip side we will just have trouble makers but for now it's important to eradicate the negative correlation and promote the positive.

I accept you arent racist but what you said was.  I do it, we all do it and the important thing is we become conscious of it and try to stop it.  I say try because it's so natural that we will all do it again and it's important we challenge and get challenged when it happens.

With regards to the media, they have a bigger role to play and still, even today they are letting BAME people down with the language they use.

I don't understand. You seem to be saying that it is not ok to describe negative points affecting black people, as black issues.

 

Then how is it ok to say that black people are disproportionately stopped and searched?

 

 

 

 

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