Black Lives Matter

[geosname]

2 hours ago, TheSage said:

 Patrick Hutchinson.

 

 

 

Had to look this up..... brilliant..... an example to us all with that act of humanity.

[Vital Spark]

All the OVF social experts weren’t on here posting about Justine Damond.

[Iron Curtain]

30 minutes ago, Vital Spark said:

All the OVF social experts weren’t on here posting about Justine Damond.

Especially for you VS

I literally cannot believe we have to go through this again! 

[Regal Beagle]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

My post makes perfect sense... When you base your entire “moral judgement” on evidence and facts, it’s best to apply it equally and in an unbiased fashion.

If someone else had posted those you would demand proof they speak on behalf of BLM and it’s written stated goals. You wouldnt just accept they have taken the message an interpreted it themselves.

Your beef was against BLM the organisation as a political movement... applying the standards of research you demand would have shown the organisation doesn’t call for the abolishment of the police.

Its just interesting to see which causes you apply your moral demand for the upmost research and facts about... Norman, Farage, Cummings, Boris.

And those you don’t... in this case BLM.

 

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

This article is another example... Its just an individual apologising for the way he interpreted signs he saw on social media.

No comment from the BLM about "Abolishing the police" being one of their goals... because it isnt. If someone had used this article to argue against you, you would laugh it off as being a pathetic attempt.

Face it Regal, when you want to side with something (Norman, Boris, Cummings, Farage), you demand the highest level of scrutiny and fact checking and evidence. But your ability or willingness to do that consistently shows you up.

 

 

 

Here we go again, it's taken 30 pages but finally Norman Smurthwaite gets a mention on the black lives matter thread 😂

 

However you twist it, Doming Cummings has nothing to do with Norman Smurthwaite, Black Lives Matter has nothing to do with Norman Smurthwaite, Dominic Cummings has nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.

 

We're about 5 posts in now, you've apparently taken massive issue with me being hypocritical or something but I'm not sure how? You cannot explain it can you? Not without your mental gymnastics.

 

I'm using the same word as the protesters in the various pictures I've provided to you. The same word discussed in 2 articles I've linked for you. I've not made the word up. It's not a right wing conspiracy or whatever you called it earlier on. This is their word, take it up with them.

 

You have to stop this childish obsession, it is bordering on an attempt at bullying.

 

 

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

History at primary schools usually doesn't get a proper look-in; its lumped under 'topic', which includes Geography and other non-core subjects.

Unfortunately the primacy on getting good SATs in Y6 means some students go through Y6 basically focusing on Maths and English, with little given to other subjects.

Luckily the reforms to the KS3 curriculum a few years ago gives teachers massive freedom to teach what they see best; slavery/empire is often covered in the 'ideas, political power, industry and empire: Britain, 1745-1901' topic. Hopefully things improve for your grandson over the next couple of years.

I used to teach a unit at Key Stage 3 - Black Peoples of the Americas - which dealt at length with the slave trade and the American Civil War.  And I note from Howjy's quote post that he wants schools to teach about racial harmony and living together in peace and tolerance.  With respect, surely parents have a role in teaching such principles??

[Vital Spark]

Especially for you VS
I literally cannot believe we have to go through this again! 

Worthless data I’m afraid, that would only be relevant if both groups in his explanation were involved in the same number of situations where the police needed to get involved. Think about it.

[Iron Curtain]

15 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

 

 

Here we go again, it's taken 30 pages but finally Norman Smurthwaite gets a mention on the black lives matter thread 😂

 

However you twist it, Doming Cummings has nothing to do with Norman Smurthwaite, Black Lives Matter has nothing to do with Norman Smurthwaite, Dominic Cummings has nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.

 

We're about 5 posts in now, you've apparently taken massive issue with me being hypocritical or something but I'm not sure how? You cannot explain it can you? Not without your mental gymnastics.

 

I'm using the same word as the protesters in the various pictures I've provided to you. The same word discussed in 2 articles I've linked for you. I've not made the word up. It's not a right wing conspiracy or whatever you called it earlier on. This is their word, take it up with them.

 

You have to stop this childish obsession, it is bordering on an attempt at bullying.

 

 

I object to you saying I'm bullying you.

Either report me or stop trying to make me out to be something I'm not. Its a clear attempt to get me to stop pointing out when you are wrong. I know you don't like being called out when you are incorrect, but this "Boy who cries wolf act" is a little tired. The report button is top right of any thread I have posted. Click away.

I have clearly laid out the point that you have a level of evidence that you require on some issues... and a completely different level of evidence you require on others. 

Proof comes in the fact that you have just posted a link backing up that BLM want to abolish the police, which was written by someone on behalf of a completely different organisation. All I have done it shown you proof that those links don't back up what you say. I would have thought that the evidence provided was welcomed by you, someone who has clearly and articulately stated that they want evidence and facts before you make you mind up.

When someone says the demand evidence to decide on a view point and then completely fail to do so, I will point it out.

 

 

[Iron Curtain]

7 minutes ago, Vital Spark said:

Worthless data I’m afraid, that would only be relevant if both groups in his explanation were involved in the same number of situations where the police needed to get involved. Think about it.

Circular argument as to why the Black community lives in poverty in the US and don't have the opportunities that White people do.

Have you watched the 13th on Netflix? I suggest you do. 

A simple question... do you believe that the Black community is treated worse than the white community in the US?

[philpvfc]

3 hours ago, Joe B said:

I could leave my house now, shout All Lives Matter (even though I think the saying is daft) and commit some public disorder.

Would that therefore be a representation of the All Lives Matter movement?

Not at all but as I said (many times) there are extremists involved with BLM who wish to cause trouble, these are a small percentage but they do exist and if you read my post, all I said was there was BLM supporters there for trouble as Sage seems to think there was none there at all.

[philpvfc]

2 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

According to my very bright grandson,who starts high school in September,hopefully,he has received  NO school education re-racial tolerance,police brutality,the appalling slave trade and the benefits of all living together in peace and harmony.Good job he has a brain and knows already what’s right and wrong and a grandad who can guide him.

The Education board has requested all teachers place something up in their classrooms in support of BLM. 

Mrs is not happy at all and is refusing, there is supposed to be a policy of no political messages within education and she always refuses get in to debates with pupils with anything that comes to politics. 

[philpvfc]

1 hour ago, Vital Spark said:

All the OVF social experts weren’t on here posting about Justine Damond.

There are hundreds of white civilians killed by Police every year in the States but it doesn’t end up with statues being pulled down and shops burned down and looted. 

[Regal Beagle]

17 minutes ago, Vital Spark said:

Worthless data I’m afraid, that would only be relevant if both groups in his explanation were involved in the same number of situations where the police needed to get involved. Think about it.

It's like arguing that Boxers shouldn't have as many concussions as Tennis players, because there are fewer boxers.

 

14 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

I object to you saying I'm bullying you.

Either report me or stop trying to make me out to be something I'm not. Its a clear attempt to get me to stop pointing out when you are wrong. I know you don't like being called out when you are incorrect, but this "Boy who cries wolf act" is a little tired. The report button is top right of any thread I have posted. Click away.

I have clearly laid out the point that you have a level of evidence that you require on some issues... and a completely different level of evidence you require on others. 

Proof comes in the fact that you have just posted a link backing up that BLM want to abolish the police, which was written by someone on behalf of a completely different organisation. All I have done it shown you proof that those links don't back up what you say. I would have thought that the evidence provided was welcomed by you, someone who has clearly and articulately stated that they want evidence and facts before you make you mind up.

When someone says the demand evidence to decide on a view point and then completely fail to do so, I will point it out.

 

 

 

Nah you were way too eager with your "gotcha" moment.

 

You obviously recognise that the articles are discussing how to interpret the word 'abolish'. Why don't you afford me the same? It seems that BLM protesters can use the word to mean defund, yet when I use it, I mean abolish.

 

How about a further quote - from one of the founders of black lives matter:

 

Quote

 

Is Black Lives Matter a movement aimed towards abolition of the police?

When we sit and think about what the world needs to looks like in order for black lives to actually matter, there is a debate: what is going to make our communities safe, how do we deal with harm, how do we solve problems that come up in our communities? I saw a piece in The Nationthat said we should abolish the police, which was awesome and in some ways is forcing questions that we have been afraid to talk about for a long time. The point to me is to be able to dig into these questions as opposed to being prescriptive about what the answers are.

In the same way, we are living in political moment where for the first time in a long time we are talking about alternatives to capitalism. Socialism became this weird household word partially because right-wingers call Obama a socialist, which he is the farthest from. It is a political moment that’s opening up opportunities to envision a world where people can actually live in dignity. So whether that’s abolishing a criminal justice system that feeds off the labor and the lives of black and brown people, whether that’s abolishing an economic system that thrives on exploitation, poverty and misery: this is the time for us to not just dream about what could be, but also start to build alternatives that we want to see.

But the institution of policing won’t be abolished overnight. In the interim, what does policing look like in a world where black lives matter?

Quite honestly I’m not sure we can have both [policing and the valuing of black lives]. That’s me personally.

 

 

 

The word 'abolish' is one that they use. It's not one I've invented or latched on to.

 

As I've said 3 times now, and you've ignored 3 times, change the word abolish to defund in my post and my orginal point is still valid and unchanged.

 

Add in the fact that it is reasonable to use abolish, it's a word used by BLM, an idea that they have supported if not officially and explicitly adopted, then your post is completely shot.

 

You are targetting me. That should be clear to everyone reading this. You've admitted before that I get defensive when you do it. You keep doing it. I'll call it what it is thank you very much.

 

 

 

[philpvfc]

38 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Especially for you VS

I literally cannot believe we have to go through this again! 

But if you look at deaths against those convicted of serious crime and prison population you are more likely to be killed by police if you are white than black. 

Twist the stats how ever you like.

[Regal Beagle]

3 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

There are hundreds of white civilians killed by Police every year in the States but it doesn’t end up with statues being pulled down and shops burned down and looted. 

If you haven't already seen it, check out a case of a man called Tony Timpa.

 

The police knelt on his back for around 13 minutes after he had called them. He became unresponsive and they were laughing and joking about him being asleep. As he was put into an ambulance one of the cops said something like 'I hope I haven't killed him'. He never woke up.

 

Not only have they not been convicted of any crime, their only punishment was "discplinary" action and at least 2 of them kept their jobs in the police.

 

This is not an issue that only affects black people.

[Davebrad]

2 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

Pi55 artist jailed for 14 days.16 pints and hadn’t a clue what he was doing.

he should have got longer, but the charge was outraging public indecency,  not urinating on a public monument or memorial,   the Cambridgrshire live report said he handed himself in on the 14th, another report says after "input" from his father...

   so till the 10yrs punishment comes to law, how long for desecrating a monument or memorial, we.ve seen 2-3 so far even some with the police looking on.