Black Lives Matter

[Warren]

As an individual I try to be law abiding an never discriminatory in my work and private life. I don't like some groups of people and some religions and say so; but that is not a reason to discriminate against them in real life etc.

There is a very worthy cause in the Black Lives Matter cause. Of course there is. But where it is going now is highly undesirable. We have got marches taking place in breach of COVID-19 restrictions. We have hangers on to those marches who a troublemakers and attack national monuments. Of course some of those statues and so called prominent figures are now inappropriate and should be reviewed. Then we have far right wing groups turning up on pretext to protect their monuments. Both sides love attacking the police as well as each other.

Talking for the silent majority, we are incandescent about an attack on the Churchill memorial. I can't look past that at all; this is the man who held the western world together in the face of Hitler and Nazi Germany and who in alignment with Japan threatened every freedom we now have. How bad can this get with cretins on one side lost from the student union etc. and thugs from the right who are simply disgusting. 

But there is now more than that. We have hysterical people, like the black woman I watched on telly, who claimed that the police were murdering black people. She's in London and its not the case here at all, not even slightly. And she might have noticed that the Equality Act and Modern Slavery Act have been enacted to help protect her as a minority. Now we have this kneeling thing. Imagine, people in an office at meeting and someone suggests doing this and there are people there who don't want to; like we are not very impressed by an American group, with American type culture, run the American way, in Trump world. We just want to go about our business quietly and actually make a difference by our actions. But no, we have this new form of bullying. It is to make us align or join a movement we don't want to support and if we don't be looked at as racist. 

I think I know now how religious movements get started. 

The main thing is always to act in your own environment that you can control in the right way. If everyone does that then cumulatively the whole world will be better. 

[Andyregs]

5 minutes ago, Warren said:

As an individual I try to be law abiding an never discriminatory in my work and private life. I don't like some groups of people and some religions and say so; but that is not a reason to discriminate against them in real life etc.

There is a very worthy cause in the Black Lives Matter cause. Of course there is. But where it is going now is highly undesirable. We have got marches taking place in breach of COVID-19 restrictions. We have hangers on to those marches who a troublemakers and attack national monuments. Of course some of those statues and so called prominent figures are now inappropriate and should be reviewed. Then we have go right wing groups turning up to protect their monuments. 

Talking for the silent majority, we are incandescent about an attack on the Churchill memorial. I can't look past that at all; this is the man who held the western world together in the face of Hitler and Nazi Germany and who in alignment with Japan threatened every freedom we now have. How bad can this get with cretins on one side lost from the student union etc. and thugs from the right who are simply disgusting. 

But there is now more than that. We have hysterical people, like the black woman I watched on telly, who claimed that the police were murdering black people. She's in London and its not the case here at all, not even slightly. And she might have noticed that the Equality Act and Modern Slavery Act have been enacted to help protect her as a minority. Now we have this kneeling thing. Imagine, people in an office at meeting and someone suggests doing this and there are people there who don't want to; like we are not very impressed by an American group, with American type culture, run the American way, in Trump world. We just want to go about our business quietly and actually make a difference by our actions. But no, we have this new form of bullying. It is to make us align or join a movement we don't want to support and if we don't be looked at as racist. 

I think I know now how religious movements get started. 

The main thing is always to act in your own environment that you can control in the right way. If everyone does that then cumulatively the whole world will be better. 

Dude, no ones making you kneel before a work meeting. Just as you’ve never sung the national anthem before one either, or done the haka, or swapped shirts afterwards (some of these would make work meetings a lot more fun). You’ve managed to get yourself all in a tizzy about something that isn’t happening. 

[Warren]

11 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

Dude, no ones making you kneel before a work meeting. Just as you’ve never sung the national anthem before one either, or done the haka, or swapped shirts afterwards (some of these would make work meetings a lot more fun). You’ve managed to get yourself all in a tizzy about something that isn’t happening. 

Fair observation. I guess I was motivated by the Premier League response to this which is to replace all player names on shirts with Black Lives Matter and one expects the kneeling action to be prevalent at upcoming matches etc. I don't like the title of this movement. I accept there is a reason why it has occurred which is fully justified. But it is of itself monoculturalism and not multiculturalism. It is only the wide diversity of those participating in it that counteracts that as an issue. 

[Jacko51]

I've seen several bits of video both on here and on the news of the trouble in London today.  Can someone explain something to me - where were the women?

[Andyregs]

2 minutes ago, Warren said:

Fair observation. I guess I was motivated by the Premier League response to this which is to replace all player names on shirts with Black Lives Matter and one expects the kneeling action to be prevalent at upcoming matches etc. I don't like the title of this movement. I accept there is a reason why it has occurred which is fully justified. But it is of itself monoculturalism and not multiculturalism. It is only the wide diversity of those participating in it that counteracts that as an issue. 

They aren’t saying you have to take a knee, they are saying you can. 
it’s monoculturalism is you choose to purposely ignore the point. But we are going round in circles here. 
 

Does this make you angry? Are they saying able bodied peoples lives don’t matter?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/27/disabled-lives-law-hate-crime

[Warren]

The movements as whole including disability are well motivated and legitimate. But I guess Black Lives Matters is riding momentum and because of that I am not satisfied about its leadership, governance and membership. Because I come from an education background and work background where those things are very important to me, and from experience are essential to success in achieving objectives, I find it harder to accept a 'wave movement' so to speak. But you have made me think more about it and I have probably shifted my mind 20% towards a more relaxed position.

[Doha]

What the fck have I just read. 

[Joe B]

43 minutes ago, Doha said:

What the fck have I just read. 

Incredibly, its still not the weirdest comment in here, a title that belongs to "you can't judge Mein Kampf without reading it".

[Andyregs]

55 minutes ago, Warren said:

The movements as whole including disability are well motivated and legitimate. But I guess Black Lives Matters is riding momentum and because of that I am not satisfied about its leadership, governance and membership. Because I come from an education background and work background where those things are very important to me, and from experience are essential to success in achieving objectives, I find it harder to accept a 'wave movement' so to speak. But you have made me think more about it and I have probably shifted my mind 20% towards a more relaxed position.

My point is that ‘black lives matter’ isn’t saying other lives don’t, just as ‘disabled lives matter’ doesn’t mean others don’t. And I’d be interested to know the reasoning why anyone would find one less palatable than the other. 
The protestors weren’t members of any group, and I couldn’t name a leader of the movement. It gained momentum, a wave as you put it, but if in 2020 we are still having to debate why police shouldn’t be killing people In the street, why slavery is wrong, and why we should care about groups being discriminated due to the colour of their skin, then a bit of momentum is necessary. 30 years ago Rodney king was videoed being beaten in the street by cops who got off Scott free. And here we are. 

[newchapel valiant]

As much as I sympathise with the BLM it is still wrong to flout the lock down rules and the organiser's need locking up. 

Why should my wife put her life and her families lives at risk treating people daily who can't obey the lock down rules. 

I am sorry but they are selfish. There is a time and place, now is not the time. 

A second spike will come because of this, I only hope demonstrators think its worth it when the NHS are trying to save there lives. 

 

[geosname]

7 hours ago, Joe B said:

Any proof mate? FIFA initially deemed them political but this was very quickly reversed and there's now no issue. No British based institutions have banned it.

 

 

Proof? .... none at all just a failing memory that's why I added a question mark. From what you and another have said..... fifa banned it, or said it couldn't be worn but capitulated...... I'm uncertain about the British reference.

[geosname]

2 hours ago, Andyregs said:

My point is that ‘black lives matter’ isn’t saying other lives don’t, just as ‘disabled lives matter’ doesn’t mean others don’t. And I’d be interested to know the reasoning why anyone would find one less palatable than the other. 
The protestors weren’t members of any group, and I couldn’t name a leader of the movement. It gained momentum, a wave as you put it, but if in 2020 we are still having to debate why police shouldn’t be killing people In the street, why slavery is wrong, and why we should care about groups being discriminated due to the colour of their skin, then a bit of momentum is necessary. 30 years ago Rodney king was videoed being beaten in the street by cops who got off Scott free. And here we are. 

I don't find the title of either group unpalatable, or wrong.

I simply think the title, which is what is chanted against police brutality and abuse of power is not inclusive, which I think it needs to be to have the most impact.

It works extremely well if the protests are about discrimination but surely the objective is to stop the police doing what they do on a daily bases against the public, whatever their colour.

It simply does not resonate with other ethnicities the way it needs to.

Would it have the same impact if it had been an Asian victim?

Would the protests have taken place if the victim was a Native American ?

I'm not suggesting the protests are wrong, black lives don't matter or discrimination is not an issue.

To defeat the power of the state you need unity.

Just my thoughts.

[darren1810]

10 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I've seen several bits of video both on here and on the news of the trouble in London today.  Can someone explain something to me - where were the women?

There's a couple here , jumping on a blokes head .

 

Tweet from Jack Dawkins (@DawkinsReturns)

[Andyregs]

6 hours ago, geosname said:

 

I'm not suggesting the protests are wrong, black lives don't matter or discrimination is not an issue.

To defeat the power of the state you need unity.

Just my thoughts.

Your suggesting that a protest about racism should not focus on race? Ignoring racism exists won’t get rid it.

[geosname]

If the problem is just racism then the police could simply increase the abuse against other ethnicities and the problem would be solved...... wouldn't it?

But that's not what I'm suggesting at all. However you wish to interpret what I said.

There is a bigger problem with the police than racism alone, although racism plays a part.