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Black Lives Matter


Joe B

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23 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

Apart from home/parents what education of racial intolerance,slave trading,police brutality is given in our schools?

Still no reply .I must be on ignore with some of the OVF teachers.Always statues and museums to visit I suppose to get educated.

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8 hours ago, Mario said:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/11/fawlty-towers-dont-mention-the-war-episode-removed-from-uktv?fbclid=IwAR3AnAsFUy8B5ov7zCju

Seriously ? It will be books next,  The looneys have taken over the asylum, and while were at it, why isn't Lenny Henry investigated over his lampooning of David Bellamy?

Our National treasure Sir Leonard ? 

Surely not, is it the same Sir Leonard who appeared on The Black and White Minstrels show ?

One of the biggest mouthpieces going yet he has had a few gaffes  himself. 

Calling out black people for not being black enough and acting like Will Smith 

Appearing on The above mentioned show 

 

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With what’s going on,if it continues, I fear for some sort of backlash on the horizon, from angry white people in the UK..I’m certainly not condoning it and sincerely hope there isn’t.Calm and sensible heads needed.Too many 5hit stirrers have suddenly found their voices.

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12 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Our National treasure Sir Leonard ? 

Surely not, is it the same Sir Leonard who appeared on The Black and White Minstrels show ?

One of the biggest mouthpieces going yet he has had a few gaffes  himself. 

Calling out black people for not being black enough and acting like Will Smith 

Appearing on The above mentioned show 

 

What’s your point though? He hasn’t denied his guilt for being on that show. 

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And in one swift move, the conversation moves from the importance of equality for black people to the merits of the Inbetweeners and Lenny Henry.

From "How do we educate people better" to "Stop the world I want to get off"

One side of this debate will be very happy about that.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

With what’s going on,if it continues, I fear for some sort of backlash on the horizon, from angry white people in the UK..I’m certainly not condoning it and sincerely hope there isn’t.Calm and sensible heads needed.Too many 5hit stirrers have suddenly found their voices.

Sorry for keep banging on about this guy, but I do agree with a lot of what he says currently. This is a twitter thread about potentially what happens next if we're not careful.

 

When the left get radical, ordinary people are left behind but become politically homeless, where do we think they'll end up if they feel that their identity is under attack?

Actual white supremacists will be rubbing their hands together right about now.

 

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12 hours ago, Joe B said:

So far in this thread:

 

1. Imperialism wasn't that bad. Had its good bits

2. Britain civilised the foreign savages through the empire

3. Statues are really, really important for education. Removing them means we can never learn about history again. 

4. It is impossible to say whether Mein Kampf is a racist book if you haven't read it. We shouldn't judge people who say it was a good book.

5. The left are gaining power everywhere, including all those countries which keep electing right of centre governments, often with massive majorities or for spells lasting over a decade.

6. If the left remove a statue of a slave-holder, Roy Sproson's statue will be next to fall.

 

Have I missed anything? Sorry for the ridiculing.

 

7. It's fine for a baying mob to commit crime if they feel strongly enough about it

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11 hours ago, Mario said:

... however it's a dangerous precedence to close down and silence those you don't agree with.

Whats the old saying " I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it "

That's a broad generalisation and a misunderstanding of what is right and wrong.

You do not allow extremists the freedom to say anything they like. If what they say has a serious impact on other people and on public order then they should be banned. Freedom of speech comes with social and moral responsibilities.

You would not allow child sex offenders to peddle their views on TV and/or in public. Or ISIS bombers? Or would you?

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

7. It's fine for a baying mob to commit crime if they feel strongly enough about it

This is the challenge.

I don't agree with the violence or destruction, it helps people oppose what they are doing and moves their message from a  noble one to a one easily opposed, especially by those looking for any excuse not to support it. However, as I have said I do understand why its felt its needed.

Big changes in the past have been caused by such disruption... The Suffragettes being the best example I can think of.

 

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30 minutes ago, TheSage said:

That's a broad generalisation and a misunderstanding of what is right and wrong.

You do not allow extremists the freedom to say anything they like. If what they say has a serious impact on other people and on public order then they should be banned. Freedom of speech comes with social and moral responsibilities.

You would not allow child sex offenders to peddle their views on TV and/or in public. Or ISIS bombers? Or would you?

 

 

 

That's true and there's got to be some balance to it all.

Things like fawlty towers though, what do you think of that being taken off for being offensive?

The answer lies, mainly, in school/childhood education for me.  Teach the wrongs and atrocities of the past and why its important to treat people of other races with respect and as equals. 

I get the statues of slave traders coming down.  No reason for them to be up whatsoever anymore.  Andyregs mentioned the Confederate statues in the usa earlier in thread.  I'm glad he did.  I had no idea there were so many of them, and so widespread.  Only reasons they can be there at all is ram home inbuilt racial hierarchy. They are a disgrace.

 

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59 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

What’s your point though? He hasn’t denied his guilt for being on that show. 

My point is that people like Craig David pictured smiling with Leigh Francis and Lenny Henry are vocal about the hurt they have endured yet are complicit by appearing in shows and having photo shoots. 

They weren't hurt when they sold themselves for a few pieces of silver. 

I'm absolutely fine with all the under privileged and abused and repressed black people having their hearts and souls being bared .

People like David, Henry , Hamilton and Joshua on the other hand make me vomit. 

They wouldn't know repression or struggle if it punched them in the face. The narrative fits and they play to the audience. 

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36 minutes ago, TheSage said:

That's a broad generalisation and a misunderstanding of what is right and wrong.

You do not allow extremists the freedom to say anything they like. If what they say has a serious impact on other people and on public order then they should be banned. Freedom of speech comes with social and moral responsibilities.

You would not allow child sex offenders to peddle their views on TV and/or in public. Or ISIS bombers? Or would you?

I would disagree.

 

We have criminal offences to stop people making threats of violence or inciting criminal behaviour already. We don't need to restrict speech to prevent or punish those things.

 

I mentioned it in earlier in the thread, but that is the test you should consider when you are advocating the restrictions of any 'freedom' is whether you would honesty afford the same power to restrict freedom to your political opponent. (I don't simply mean 'a racist' when i say your opponent, i mean someone who is principally the direct opposite of you on the political spectrum).

 

Would you trust Boris Johnson and his Government to police what language and speech is acceptable and what isn't?

Would I have trusted Jeremy Corbyn? Certainly not, which is why I don't think the Government should have that power.

 

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