Black Lives Matter

[darren1810]

I'm slightly off topic here only slightly. 

I will hold my hands up apart from the killing of Mr Floyd I don't know the immediate minutes before his death. 

What I would say about it and I may be barking up the wrong tree but just who on earth videos something like that for their Facebook or Instagram or whatever without a word of intervention ?

I get against 4 Police officers it's incredibly difficult and I'd imagine frightening. But had they just shouted or approached who knows if the outcome would of been different. Might of made them think maybe ? 

Did the person videoing make any attempt at intervention or ask what on earth they were doing to the bloke or did they just stand there filming ?

The flip side of course is that without the video the truth may never of been known as I'm sure it would of been a cover up job . 

 

[glenpvfc]

You would have been filled full of bullets before you had chance to step off the curb

[Doha]

19 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

I get against 4 Police officers it's incredibly difficult and I'd imagine frightening. But had they just shouted or approached who knows if the outcome would of been different. Might of made them think maybe ? 

Definitely not. Naive in the extreme. If they approached in that situation they'd have been shot. 

People are keeping archives of videos of police brutality/criminality in these Floyd protests. Below is just an excerpt. The number of videos i.e. separate incidents was >400 a few days ago.

 

 

[Andyregs]

52 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

I'm slightly off topic here only slightly. 

I will hold my hands up apart from the killing of Mr Floyd I don't know the immediate minutes before his death. 

What I would say about it and I may be barking up the wrong tree but just who on earth videos something like that for their Facebook or Instagram or whatever without a word of intervention ?

I get against 4 Police officers it's incredibly difficult and I'd imagine frightening. But had they just shouted or approached who knows if the outcome would of been different. Might of made them think maybe ? 

Did the person videoing make any attempt at intervention or ask what on earth they were doing to the bloke or did they just stand there filming ?

The flip side of course is that without the video the truth may never of been known as I'm sure it would of been a cover up job . 

 

You can see people challenge the police on the video, though there aren’t a lot of people around. And you’re right, it would have been covered up. However they haven’t been found guilty yet. Remember, for the Rodney king assault that was captured on video, all the officers went free and that’s when the worst riots happened. 

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

imperialism was practised by most of the modern countries in Europe in the 19th century, we were just better at it...it had its faults but generally, we brought them the benefits of the industrial revolution, without these in later years they would have been left behind. Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system.

  On the balance I think they did benefit, although looking at Syria, Libya, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, the in-fighting amongst the sects and tribes have set them way back...

God Almighty, this is the most white-centric, western-focused interpretation of history I have ever seen. Please, read a history book. 

The benevolent white man altruistically takes over savage, barbaric brown countries and gives them civilisation. Come on mate. We used these countries for financial gain and mercilessly killed millions of people. I cannot believe I have just read "imperialism had its fault but we civilised those savages!" Its something out of the 19th century.

The issues in Syria, Libya, Iran, and Iraq are less to do with tribal conflict and more to do with western intervention to secure oil reserves and botched state-building in the aftermath of removing dictators.

Genuinely, you have the right to your opinion, but this is amongst the most misinformed comments on history I've ever seen.

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

if its done by the rule of law, or by parliament then theres no argument, but if a group of people pull it down of there own accord, then, can a group of vale supporters having a pint decide to go pull stan's statue in hanley down, or stokies come and remove roys, where does it all end...

People have been petitioning for this to be removed since the 90s. 

Thankfully Sir Stan didn't have a history of selling people.

[Davebrad]

2 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Did the holocaust ‘have its faults’ too?

keep up , I was talking about the faults and benifits of our imperialism...

[Davebrad]

5 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

It seems that the direct action taken on this statue is resulting in others being removed properly.  30 years of democratic lobbying eclipsed by 1 day of direct action and people question why they did it!  

Some of you will continue to obsess over the vandalism rather than the injustice that statue represented the the black community and the significance of it being toppled in the way it was.

It's a good job some of you werent in Iraq when they tore down Hussains statue, you would have been arguing for its historical merits and decrying the disorder... 

 

did saddam's statue have any historic merits?

[Davebrad]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

People have been petitioning for this to be removed since the 90s. 

Thankfully Sir Stan didn't have a history of selling people.

didn't he have something to do with 6 charges made against port vale in 1968, while he was manager, which resulted in us being expelled?

[Davebrad]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

God Almighty, this is the most white-centric, western-focused interpretation of history I have ever seen. Please, read a history book. 

The benevolent white man altruistically takes over savage, barbaric brown countries and gives them civilisation. Come on mate. We used these countries for financial gain and mercilessly killed millions of people. I cannot believe I have just read "imperialism had its fault but we civilised those savages!" Its something out of the 19th century.

The issues in Syria, Libya, Iran, and Iraq are less to do with tribal conflict and more to do with western intervention to secure oil reserves and botched state-building in the aftermath of removing dictators.

Genuinely, you have the right to your opinion, but this is amongst the most misinformed comments on history I've ever seen.

I said nothing about "but we civilised those savages", fake news...  and what would india be without railways?

[Joe B]

Another slave-holder statue removed in London.

20 years of petitioning to remove the one in Bristol, and now two gone in days.

Sometimes, you can't sit by and wait for bad things to be put right.

[Joe B]

51 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I said nothing about "but we civilised those savages", fake news...  and what would india be without railways?

You said, and I quote

"we brought them the benefits of the industrial revolution, without these in later years they would have been left behind. Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system."

You did say we civilised those savages. That's exactly what you said.

[Mario]

I agree with Sir Geoff Palmer who says "That if you remove statues or street names associated with slavery, in 50 years time you will forget the history of slavery and maybe some racists may be quite happy to take them down because you are taking down your history "

Plaques should be on the statues to educate future generations.

[Andyregs]

4 hours ago, Davebrad said:

you had 6,    everything has faults, and it also had benefits...

 

4 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Did the holocaust ‘have its faults’ too?

 

1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

keep up , I was talking about the faults and benifits of our imperialism...

I know, it was a question based on what you said, hence the question mark. Keep up.

[Andyregs]

1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

did saddam's statue have any historic merits?

He was in office for over 20 years.