Black Lives Matter

[Andyregs]

31 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I agree, it's the same argument as vigilantism, the majority (or at least a significant minority) might agree that something is good or bad, but a civil and democratic society must follow due process and the rule of law.

That’s probably the best analogy I’ve heard against it, and to be honest (putting aside my own bias) it’s hard to argue against. I understand if people were arguing against the method, I can’t understand why people so passionately defend such a statue and become upset about it being gone. 
 

[Joe B]

I am very, very impressed with people choosing to die on the hill of a man who traded 84,000 people, with 19,000 dying in transit.

"Oh, I think it should have been removed, but through legal means!"

What do you think people have been trying to do for 20 years, to no avail? People have been protesting its removal since the 90s.

[Andyregs]

Hang on, what did Roy Sproson do? 

[Joe B]

1 minute ago, Andyregs said:

Hang on, what did Roy Sproson do? 

No mate, you don't get it.

If you're removing a statue which celebrates the financial contributions of a man who made the money through the abduction, torture, degradation, and murder of thousands of human beings, you might as well remove all statues of old people!

The loony left are at it again! Chortle! Roy Sproson is the same as a slave trader!

[Joe B]

I really hope that people realise you can learn about History WITHOUT statues.

 

[Joe B]

It would seem most people have a greater issue with the people who have performed the act (BLM etc) than the actual act itself, and therefore have to work backwards from the position of 'this is wrong'.

I'm reading arguments that Edward Colston's statue removal will lead to all statues (including Roy Sproson's) being at risk, and due process (which has been ignored for 20+ years and is completely futile here) needs to be followed to remove a statue venerating a man who profited off abduction and murder.

Its these sort of illogical, farcical arguments that are a result of people forming conclusions first, and then trying to find a way to justify it, as opposed to the other way around. 

[Mario]

I wonder if art galleries will come under scrutiny ?

[Fosse69]

3 hours ago, Davebrad said:

that's a progressive world, learning from the past, but if you don't show a past, how can you make it better?

But who writes history?  The winners usually to suit their agenda. The impression when i was a lad was that the British  Empire civilised and educated the  world.  Later on I learned differently the  Middle East  and India were far ahead when we were living in caves.  

[Davebrad]

2 hours ago, Andyregs said:

And it was normal in Germany to persecute the Jews and there weren’t enough people stopping it. I’m sure many people benefited from hitler being in power. But I’m also sure you’d agree that this wasn’t normal for the Jews or anything to be celebrated with a statue.

true in Germany nearly all the people were swept along in the euphoria of work, money, food to eat, to worry about being at war, till later. Once the Nazis came to power then it was normal to see what was happening to the jews in the towns and citys, the jews like the negroes were in the minority, but once they started experiencing the cruelty it became normal to them.

[Heatwave]

1 hour ago, Mario said:

I wonder if art galleries will come under scrutiny ?

Don't think so as galleries and museums are the sort of places that Colston and Cecil Rhodes will end up in. To do otherwise would be to ignore history, and to do that would be the easiest way to repeat it.

[Davebrad]

17 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

But who writes history?  The winners usually to suit their agenda. The impression when i was a lad was that the British  Empire civilised and educated the  world.  Later on I learned differently the  Middle East  and India were far ahead when we were living in caves.  

imperialism was practised by most of the modern countries in Europe in the 19th century, we were just better at it...it had its faults but generally, we brought them the benefits of the industrial revolution, without these in later years they would have been left behind. Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system.

  On the balance I think they did benefit, although looking at Syria, Libya, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, the in-fighting amongst the sects and tribes have set them way back...

[Andyregs]

34 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

true in Germany nearly all the people were swept along in the euphoria of work, money, food to eat, to worry about being at war, till later. Once the Nazis came to power then it was normal to see what was happening to the jews in the towns and citys, the jews like the negroes were in the minority, but once they started experiencing the cruelty it became normal to them.

 

8 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

imperialism was practised by most of the modern countries in Europe in the 19th century, we were just better at it...it had its faults but generally, we brought them the benefits of the industrial revolution, without these in later years they would have been left behind. Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system.

  On the balance I think they did benefit, although looking at Syria, Libya, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, the in-fighting amongst the sects and tribes have set them way back...

I’ve got no words...

’it had its faults...’ sweet Jesus 

[Davebrad]

2 hours ago, Joe B said:

I am very, very impressed with people choosing to die on the hill of a man who traded 84,000 people, with 19,000 dying in transit.

"Oh, I think it should have been removed, but through legal means!"

What do you think people have been trying to do for 20 years, to no avail? People have been protesting its removal since the 90s.

if its done by the rule of law, or by parliament then theres no argument, but if a group of people pull it down of there own accord, then, can a group of vale supporters having a pint decide to go pull stan's statue in hanley down, or stokies come and remove roys, where does it all end...

[Davebrad]

4 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

 

I’ve got no words...

’it had its faults...’ sweet Jesus 

you had 6,    everything has faults, and it also had benefits...

[Andyregs]

Just now, Davebrad said:

you had 6,    everything has faults, and it also had benefits...

Did the holocaust ‘have its faults’ too?