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1 hour ago, Tony Rougier said:

I really enjoyed listening to that. Some great stories and a good insight to what went on and the characters we have had over the years.

Regarding Tom's controversial comments, without doubt he should have played more under Askey. For me, he was the player that made us tick, bringing others into play and guaranteeing a minimum of 15 goals a season. How would we like to have one of those now? James Wilson, within 2 games it seems as though we have another player that flatters to decieve. I really hope he proves me wrong but flashes of good play won't make up for his general ineffectiveness. Not quick, not good in the air, not good at holding it up, doesn't get on the end of things, injury prone, does he really want it?

As for the current Manager / Flitcrift, even before this podcast, in every single interview Clarke comes across as the big hard man who tries to belittle the reporter. (Small man syndrome at its best). His disdain and lack of trust for the press is fine, but there's still a way to treat people and he crosses the line on most occasions if he doesn't like the question being asked. Maybe he's different behind the scenes, but interviews are the only time supporters get to hear a Manager speak and I'm finding him a difficult man to like. I get its not a popularity contest, and nice guys often finish last, but there's a way to go about your business and ultimately the players will also think that in time as well. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

As for tearing up last year's squad, I agreed with it in general. What I didn't agree with was getting rid of our best two players, players who without them we would be in the conference or in liquidation, while also treating them really badly on their way out. Did they deserve that? Are their replacements better? This team looks mid table mediocrity at best and if the <ovf censored> hits the fan again, which I suspect it will if things don't pick up in 10 games time, I don't see that we have the quality or characters for Clarke to survive.

The management team have laid this ruthless marker themselves and they need to start getting results to prove it was the right way to go about things. So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

Tony, good morning. You mention our best two players. In your opinion who were these players.? 

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Tony, good morning. You mention our best two players. In your opinion who were these players.? 
I suspect it's Pope and Brown. Ignore the fact that one is now playing for Congleton Town, and the other is no longer really a player
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I suspect it's Pope and Brown. Ignore the fact that one is now playing for Congleton Town, and the other is no longer really a player
OK so on that methodology, if Pope can score against Man City then he should be playing in the Premier League? Do you really think North West counties was the highest level he could get? Regardless of what you say, he was treated badly last season and never got a run in the team. Then he did his shoulder and was given 60 minutes in the last match in a diabolical team. He deserved another contract even if only for 12 months on reduced wages. We will / are already missing him.

Brown - do you not think it was risky releasing a safe pair of hands to be replaced by a 30 year old Brazilian wildcard from non league (already looks very dodgy) and a youngster? He was told he would be getting a new contract but had the rug pulled from under him as well.

Poor treatment of 2 players who had served us very well. If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

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9 minutes ago, Tony Rougier said:

OK so on that methodology, if Pope can score against Man City then he should be playing in the Premier League? Do you really think North West counties was the highest level he could get? Regardless of what you say, he was treated badly last season and never got a run in the team. Then he did his shoulder and was given 60 minutes in the last match in a diabolical team. He deserved another contract even if only for 12 months on reduced wages. We will / are already missing him.

Brown - do you not think it was risky releasing a safe pair of hands to be replaced by a 30 year old Brazilian wildcard from non league (already looks very dodgy) and a youngster? He was told he would be getting a new contract but had the rug pulled from under him as well.

Poor treatment of 2 players who had served us very well. If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

The 30 year old Brazilian wild card has let in a disgraceful 2 goals in 4 league games. Scott Brown's better days were behind him, have a look at the amount of goals he let in from distance. We only miss a young, fit, performing Pope in the same way we miss a young fit Marc Richards or a young fit Darren Beckford. Unfortunately Tom Pope was a victim of himself, Askey clearly had a downer on him but Tom wasn't clever enough to handle it. It's a sad fact that "when the north wind blew"  Tom went to the pub. Now let's say for example that the pub he went to was in Southport or Kidderminster, then the news of his 5 or 6 pint consumption would unlikely reach the managers ear but the pub was in Stoke on Trent. Sadly for Tom if he'd had two pints you can guarantee some local snitch wold report it as 6 pints and as many Benson & Hedges to boot. Tom must know this. I really, really want to remember the good that Tom has done for the club, both on and off the pitch but the failure of some fans to let go and move on is nauseating. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Dr Delgado said:

. Unfortunately Tom Pope was a victim of himself, Askey clearly had a downer on him but Tom wasn't clever enough to handle it. It's a sad fact that "when the north wind blew"  Tom went to the pub. Now let's say for example that the pub he went to was in Southport or Kidderminster, then the news of his 5 or 6 pint consumption would unlikely reach the managers ear but the pub was in Stoke on Trent. Sadly for Tom if he'd had two pints you can guarantee some local snitch wold report it as 6 pints and as many Benson & Hedges to boot. Tom must know this. I really, really want to remember the good that Tom has done for the club, both on and off the pitch but the failure of some fans to let go and move on is nauseating. 

A fit Tom Pope in the team is a great thing. The problem is (from what I've heard) that a Tom Pope coming to the end of his career and being left out of the team is a nightmare to manage, especially for a quiet, confrontation-avoiding gent like Askey. The fact that Pope admits to drowning his sorrows (rather than getting back to full fitness) in response to being left out tells you all you need to know. It's no wonder he scored his 30+ goals that season under Adams, he ran him into the ground to get him fit and would never have tolerated an ounce of indiscipline.  With a different attitude, Pope could still be leading the line this  season under Askey. The fact that he isn't is (partially) down to his choices.

Everyone has freedom of choice. No one has freedom from the consequences of those choices.

Edited by gavcradd
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3 hours ago, Tony Rougier said:

I really enjoyed listening to that. Some great stories and a good insight to what went on and the characters we have had over the years.

Regarding Tom's controversial comments, without doubt he should have played more under Askey. For me, he was the player that made us tick, bringing others into play and guaranteeing a minimum of 15 goals a season. How would we like to have one of those now? James Wilson, within 2 games it seems as though we have another player that flatters to decieve. I really hope he proves me wrong but flashes of good play won't make up for his general ineffectiveness. Not quick, not good in the air, not good at holding it up, doesn't get on the end of things, injury prone, does he really want it?

As for the current Manager / Flitcrift, even before this podcast, in every single interview Clarke comes across as the big hard man who tries to belittle the reporter. (Small man syndrome at its best). His disdain and lack of trust for the press is fine, but there's still a way to treat people and he crosses the line on most occasions if he doesn't like the question being asked. Maybe he's different behind the scenes, but interviews are the only time supporters get to hear a Manager speak and I'm finding him a difficult man to like. I get its not a popularity contest, and nice guys often finish last, but there's a way to go about your business and ultimately the players will also think that in time as well. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

As for tearing up last year's squad, I agreed with it in general. What I didn't agree with was getting rid of our best two players, players who without them we would be in the conference or in liquidation, while also treating them really badly on their way out. Did they deserve that? Are their replacements better? This team looks mid table mediocrity at best and if the <ovf censored> hits the fan again, which I suspect it will if things don't pick up in 10 games time, I don't see that we have the quality or characters for Clarke to survive.

The management team have laid this ruthless marker themselves and they need to start getting results to prove it was the right way to go about things. So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

There is so much to pick apart from this I don't know where to start.

I'm not going to repeat what I put earlier in this post, but you my friend are clearly in the pocket of a 35 year old semi-professional footballer who is only guaranteed '15 goals a season' for Congleton (if he doesn't get injured or downs tools on the basis of hearing something he doesn't like).

Maybe if TP actually did legitimately 'trust the process' and made some notable headway into coaching (like he insisted he would love to do) instead of crying, mocking people, putting on accents, doing podcasts, writing newspaper columns and tweeting then maybe he wouldn't be playing 8th tier basement football for his mates and the club would involve him in some way. Seems like he's burnt that bridge, any with many fans.

Not why any young players would want to work with him though, because there is a high chance they will be slagged off in public afterwards if he doesn't like what he see's.

Clarke seems to me like a realist and read this whole situation well, Pope comes across like a spoilt brat who is bemoaning his past 5 years decisions/attitude. 

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There is so much to pick apart from this I don't know where to start.

I'm not going to repeat what I put earlier in this post, but you my friend are clearly in the pocket of a 35 year old semi-professional footballer who is only guaranteed '15 goals a season' for Congleton (if he doesn't get injured or downs tools on the basis of hearing something he doesn't like).

Maybe if TP actually did legitimately 'trust the process' and made some notable headway into coaching (like he insisted he would love to do) instead of crying, mocking people, putting on accents, doing podcasts, writing newspaper columns and tweeting then maybe he wouldn't be playing 8th tier basement football for his mates and the club would involve him in some way. Seems like he's burnt that bridge, any with many fans.

Not why any young players would want to work with him though, because there is a high chance they will be slagged off in public afterwards if he doesn't like what he see's.

Clarke seems to me like a realist and read this whole situation well, Pope comes across like a spoilt brat who is bemoaning his past 5 years decisions/attitude. 
He scored 15+ in the league twice in his career. He was just coming into his peak don't you know [emoji849]
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1 hour ago, philmpv said:

He scored 15+ in the league twice in his career. He was just coming into his peak don't you know emoji849.png

I too was wondering where these guaranteed 15 goals a season have been recently? Maybe if he spent more time on the training ground and less time leathered in Burslem golf club clubhouse he might have warranted another season.  

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Forest Green Preview!

We're back and talking through the main points of the week. Bad news for Leggy, good news for Carol and a bit of mental health discussion after the Lee Collins game. We have an optimistic crack at which striker Vale might try and sign on loan, then go in to the Forest Green preview. We haven't won, they've won all 4 so we're due a win surely?! Plenty of debate on tactics and the road to victory!

Available on Apple, Google and Spotify podcasts. And here! https://aleandthevale.podbean.com

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7 hours ago, Tony Rougier said:

If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

Yes

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5 minutes ago, mattpvfc said:

Not a prayer sorry

You don't even think top 7?

I know its early days so far but we look solid creating chances, just not finishing them. Captain Conlon to come back in soon I think its only a matter of time before they start going in and we become team that win 1-0. Don't think we will ever blow anybody away - not enough firepower for that.

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You don't even think top 7?
I know its early days so far but we look solid creating chances, just not finishing them. Captain Conlon to come back in soon I think its only a matter of time before they start going in and we become team that win 1-0. Don't think we will ever blow anybody away - not enough firepower for that.
No mate mid table for me

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Jermaine Holwynn said:

There is so much to pick apart from this I don't know where to start.

I'm not going to repeat what I put earlier in this post, but you my friend are clearly in the pocket of a 35 year old semi-professional footballer who is only guaranteed '15 goals a season' for Congleton (if he doesn't get injured or downs tools on the basis of hearing something he doesn't like).

Maybe if TP actually did legitimately 'trust the process' and made some notable headway into coaching (like he insisted he would love to do) instead of crying, mocking people, putting on accents, doing podcasts, writing newspaper columns and tweeting then maybe he wouldn't be playing 8th tier basement football for his mates and the club would involve him in some way. Seems like he's burnt that bridge, any with many fans.

Not why any young players would want to work with him though, because there is a high chance they will be slagged off in public afterwards if he doesn't like what he see's.

Clarke seems to me like a realist and read this whole situation well, Pope comes across like a spoilt brat who is bemoaning his past 5 years decisions/attitude. 

Agree with this and Gavcradd post. However, I don’t blame the ale and vale lads one bit for doing the interview, I just hope sensible Vale fans can made their own conclusions. 

Its clear Pope has a very high opinion of himself (which you need to be a pro footballer) but I think he lost touch of reality towards the end. An example is his ‘head gone’ comments after losing the captaincy and admitting to proceeding to drink heavily. We all know Pope likes a beer and a fag, but I think his ‘I’ll still try hard’ approach is not suitable in 2021 and we need more professionalism at the club. 

I will always remember Tom Pope fondly, but It was the correct decision to move on, and maybe it was a year too late to be honest. I’m sure If ale and vale interviewed John Askey, there would be a completely different side of the story. 

My only disappointment now is that there seems to be a bit of a divide amongst Vale fans following TP’s comments. I’ve already seen people mocking (in the same way as TP did) ‘trust the process’ ‘attention to detail’ They are waiting for DC and DF to fail, and it’s not helping to form a united fanbase. 

I just hope everyone can draw a line under the past and move forward. We deserve some success after the <ovf censored> we’ve had to deal with over the last 5 years. We can’t turn back time, so regardless of people’s opinions (including TP) let’s back the team, management and owners and see where we end up come May. UTV. 

Edited by Boslem's Brazil
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10 hours ago, Tony Rougier said:

OK so on that methodology, if Pope can score against Man City then he should be playing in the Premier League? Do you really think North West counties was the highest level he could get? Regardless of what you say, he was treated badly last season and never got a run in the team. Then he did his shoulder and was given 60 minutes in the last match in a diabolical team. He deserved another contract even if only for 12 months on reduced wages. We will / are already missing him.

Brown - do you not think it was risky releasing a safe pair of hands to be replaced by a 30 year old Brazilian wildcard from non league (already looks very dodgy) and a youngster? He was told he would be getting a new contract but had the rug pulled from under him as well.

Poor treatment of 2 players who had served us very well. If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

If no other club in the top seven tiers seems to have been prepared to give Tom a contract why should we?  We are a football club, not a charity. You do not make progress by living in the past. 

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Yes
Who's going to score the goals? Who's going to create the clear cut chances for the goals? Everything I've seen so far of the new players screams bang average league 2, top half league 2 at best. We look solid but thats not difficult when we play such a negative formation with experienced players.

For me we are relying on the same players we kept from last season. Conlon will probably be our top scorer (if not then I dread to think where our goals will come from) Jake Taylor to bring his form back from 2 years ago so that we have a bit of creativity (Manager doesn't like him though), and Smith and Legge (Only retained because we were forced to keep him) to keep us solid. How is that great recruitment?

I accept I'm being overly negative too early on but I just don't see it changing that much. It could easily go the other way if the fans turn.

Let's just hope it's down to a tough start to the season and things pick up soon
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