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stupers

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13 minutes ago, Santa said:

He was also critical of certain players and recruitment at the club but mocking any efforts to turn that around by putting on a Lancashire accent. Several times.

That got really tedious, as did "I'm not going to slag X off, he's one of my best mates, I love him, but X is <ovf censored> and I am better."

Also, slag off players like Theo if you like but at least he was available to play unlike you, Mr I-don't-give-a-<ovf censored>, who was suspended for shooting you mouth off online when we really bodies.

 

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Although it started off as quite an entertaining listen, the longer the Pod went on (and it went on for a bloody long time), little details kept getting added that made it feel a bit like a Greek tragedy unfolding.
This is a man, nearly 36 years old, struggling to come to terms with coming to the end of his football career and not being the same player he was 8 or 9 years ago. But more than that, he seems to be struggling with losing his sense of purpose, he still has unresolved issues about being stripped of the captaincy.
There were a couple of things that stood out for me, one was that he didn't manage to join up the dots with Smurthwaite, admitting his faults but not seeing the bigger picture about how he took the football club backwards over a period of years. He was also critical of certain players and recruitment at the club but mocking any efforts to turn that around by putting on a Lancashire accent. Several times.
Now, DC and DF could well turn out to be a pair of clueless bluffers for all I know, but the club needs dragging into the 21st century and the old school mentality of having a go at anybody who challenges The Way Things Have Always Been Done won’t get us anywhere.
Most of all it just seemed to be a lack of self awareness that made me feel sad. He doesn't appreciate how his personality can rub people up the wrong way, he’s grown up in brutal dressing rooms but doesn’t understand that a lot of people don’t appreciate it.
He admits to starting to act unprofessionally and taking the mick after losing the captaincy but he doesn't see how that could have played a part in him not still being here now. Maybe he also didn't appreciate the wider responsibilities of being a captain besides going and fighting the players’ corner. When he talked about wanting to do his coaching badges but later admitted hating what football has become, I did wonder how we would be able to reconcile the two.
All in all it’s just a really unpleasant way for it all to come to an end. With the indifferent start we’ve had, it has the potential to unsettle the club and the support for some time to come.
 
Love the pod but that went on too long and was damaging to the club he obviously has demons hope he sorts it out I really do
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I enjoyed that interview. I had to listen to it in about five or six chunks because of the length.

Pope the player is, and always will be, a club legend. 

He is also in the clubs history and no-one can take away his fantastic achievements and all the incredible memories he created for us all. 

Port Vale Football Club is far bigger than any individual and will go from strength to strength under the current owners. Time for DC, Wilson, Proctor, Pett, etc... to step up and take the team forwards on the pitch and silence any of the doubters. 

UTV! 

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On 22/08/2021 at 17:46, stupers said:

Thanks for all the feedback, positive and negative. We understand that us releasing the episode would maybe cause some pushback. As Vale fans, all of 20+ years we didn't want to rock the boat. We're fully behind Flitcroft, Clarke and everyone at Vale. Anyone who has listened to a single pod over the summer would know that, and as far as I'm concerned that hasn't changed. 

However as an ex-player (and legend) it would have been wrong for us to turn down a chat with Tom to talk through his time at Vale and how it ended from his perspective. We probably could have challenged him a bit more on a couple of things, but as someone says above we're not in-depth journalists. We do this for fun, and all the money we generate after costs goes to Vale-related projects (100 quid to the SVA initiative just the other day). We were just, as ever trying to put out some content that Vale fans would find interesting. We'll take all constructive criticism on board and see where we can improve. 

I really enjoy the pod. In a similar way to OVF it makes me feel more connected to the club. Even when results arent great it's like shared frustration therapy. I don't get to many games as I live miles away and have young kids so i look forward to the weekly reviews.

Anyway just saying thanks. There will always be different opinions on things and keep doing what you are doing. 👍

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I really enjoyed listening to that. Some great stories and a good insight to what went on and the characters we have had over the years.

Regarding Tom's controversial comments, without doubt he should have played more under Askey. For me, he was the player that made us tick, bringing others into play and guaranteeing a minimum of 15 goals a season. How would we like to have one of those now? James Wilson, within 2 games it seems as though we have another player that flatters to decieve. I really hope he proves me wrong but flashes of good play won't make up for his general ineffectiveness. Not quick, not good in the air, not good at holding it up, doesn't get on the end of things, injury prone, does he really want it?

As for the current Manager / Flitcrift, even before this podcast, in every single interview Clarke comes across as the big hard man who tries to belittle the reporter. (Small man syndrome at its best). His disdain and lack of trust for the press is fine, but there's still a way to treat people and he crosses the line on most occasions if he doesn't like the question being asked. Maybe he's different behind the scenes, but interviews are the only time supporters get to hear a Manager speak and I'm finding him a difficult man to like. I get its not a popularity contest, and nice guys often finish last, but there's a way to go about your business and ultimately the players will also think that in time as well. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

As for tearing up last year's squad, I agreed with it in general. What I didn't agree with was getting rid of our best two players, players who without them we would be in the conference or in liquidation, while also treating them really badly on their way out. Did they deserve that? Are their replacements better? This team looks mid table mediocrity at best and if the <ovf censored> hits the fan again, which I suspect it will if things don't pick up in 10 games time, I don't see that we have the quality or characters for Clarke to survive.

The management team have laid this ruthless marker themselves and they need to start getting results to prove it was the right way to go about things. So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

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39 minutes ago, Tony Rougier said:

So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

It seems to be money invested behind the scenes with infrastructure, coaches etc. Which is great for the club long term. But it's a bit unfair to portray that as Clarke being given a big war chest to achieve an immediate promotion.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

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1 hour ago, Tony Rougier said:

I really enjoyed listening to that. Some great stories and a good insight to what went on and the characters we have had over the years.

Regarding Tom's controversial comments, without doubt he should have played more under Askey. For me, he was the player that made us tick, bringing others into play and guaranteeing a minimum of 15 goals a season. How would we like to have one of those now? James Wilson, within 2 games it seems as though we have another player that flatters to decieve. I really hope he proves me wrong but flashes of good play won't make up for his general ineffectiveness. Not quick, not good in the air, not good at holding it up, doesn't get on the end of things, injury prone, does he really want it?

As for the current Manager / Flitcrift, even before this podcast, in every single interview Clarke comes across as the big hard man who tries to belittle the reporter. (Small man syndrome at its best). His disdain and lack of trust for the press is fine, but there's still a way to treat people and he crosses the line on most occasions if he doesn't like the question being asked. Maybe he's different behind the scenes, but interviews are the only time supporters get to hear a Manager speak and I'm finding him a difficult man to like. I get its not a popularity contest, and nice guys often finish last, but there's a way to go about your business and ultimately the players will also think that in time as well. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

As for tearing up last year's squad, I agreed with it in general. What I didn't agree with was getting rid of our best two players, players who without them we would be in the conference or in liquidation, while also treating them really badly on their way out. Did they deserve that? Are their replacements better? This team looks mid table mediocrity at best and if the <ovf censored> hits the fan again, which I suspect it will if things don't pick up in 10 games time, I don't see that we have the quality or characters for Clarke to survive.

The management team have laid this ruthless marker themselves and they need to start getting results to prove it was the right way to go about things. So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

Tony, good morning. You mention our best two players. In your opinion who were these players.? 

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Tony, good morning. You mention our best two players. In your opinion who were these players.? 
I suspect it's Pope and Brown. Ignore the fact that one is now playing for Congleton Town, and the other is no longer really a player
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I suspect it's Pope and Brown. Ignore the fact that one is now playing for Congleton Town, and the other is no longer really a player
OK so on that methodology, if Pope can score against Man City then he should be playing in the Premier League? Do you really think North West counties was the highest level he could get? Regardless of what you say, he was treated badly last season and never got a run in the team. Then he did his shoulder and was given 60 minutes in the last match in a diabolical team. He deserved another contract even if only for 12 months on reduced wages. We will / are already missing him.

Brown - do you not think it was risky releasing a safe pair of hands to be replaced by a 30 year old Brazilian wildcard from non league (already looks very dodgy) and a youngster? He was told he would be getting a new contract but had the rug pulled from under him as well.

Poor treatment of 2 players who had served us very well. If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

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9 minutes ago, Tony Rougier said:

OK so on that methodology, if Pope can score against Man City then he should be playing in the Premier League? Do you really think North West counties was the highest level he could get? Regardless of what you say, he was treated badly last season and never got a run in the team. Then he did his shoulder and was given 60 minutes in the last match in a diabolical team. He deserved another contract even if only for 12 months on reduced wages. We will / are already missing him.

Brown - do you not think it was risky releasing a safe pair of hands to be replaced by a 30 year old Brazilian wildcard from non league (already looks very dodgy) and a youngster? He was told he would be getting a new contract but had the rug pulled from under him as well.

Poor treatment of 2 players who had served us very well. If Clarke gets us promotion or even top 7, then please drag this post up at the end of the season and tell me I told you so. I really don't see that happening though, do you?

The 30 year old Brazilian wild card has let in a disgraceful 2 goals in 4 league games. Scott Brown's better days were behind him, have a look at the amount of goals he let in from distance. We only miss a young, fit, performing Pope in the same way we miss a young fit Marc Richards or a young fit Darren Beckford. Unfortunately Tom Pope was a victim of himself, Askey clearly had a downer on him but Tom wasn't clever enough to handle it. It's a sad fact that "when the north wind blew"  Tom went to the pub. Now let's say for example that the pub he went to was in Southport or Kidderminster, then the news of his 5 or 6 pint consumption would unlikely reach the managers ear but the pub was in Stoke on Trent. Sadly for Tom if he'd had two pints you can guarantee some local snitch wold report it as 6 pints and as many Benson & Hedges to boot. Tom must know this. I really, really want to remember the good that Tom has done for the club, both on and off the pitch but the failure of some fans to let go and move on is nauseating. 

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12 minutes ago, Dr Delgado said:

. Unfortunately Tom Pope was a victim of himself, Askey clearly had a downer on him but Tom wasn't clever enough to handle it. It's a sad fact that "when the north wind blew"  Tom went to the pub. Now let's say for example that the pub he went to was in Southport or Kidderminster, then the news of his 5 or 6 pint consumption would unlikely reach the managers ear but the pub was in Stoke on Trent. Sadly for Tom if he'd had two pints you can guarantee some local snitch wold report it as 6 pints and as many Benson & Hedges to boot. Tom must know this. I really, really want to remember the good that Tom has done for the club, both on and off the pitch but the failure of some fans to let go and move on is nauseating. 

A fit Tom Pope in the team is a great thing. The problem is (from what I've heard) that a Tom Pope coming to the end of his career and being left out of the team is a nightmare to manage, especially for a quiet, confrontation-avoiding gent like Askey. The fact that Pope admits to drowning his sorrows (rather than getting back to full fitness) in response to being left out tells you all you need to know. It's no wonder he scored his 30+ goals that season under Adams, he ran him into the ground to get him fit and would never have tolerated an ounce of indiscipline.  With a different attitude, Pope could still be leading the line this  season under Askey. The fact that he isn't is (partially) down to his choices.

Everyone has freedom of choice. No one has freedom from the consequences of those choices.

Edited by gavcradd
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3 hours ago, Tony Rougier said:

I really enjoyed listening to that. Some great stories and a good insight to what went on and the characters we have had over the years.

Regarding Tom's controversial comments, without doubt he should have played more under Askey. For me, he was the player that made us tick, bringing others into play and guaranteeing a minimum of 15 goals a season. How would we like to have one of those now? James Wilson, within 2 games it seems as though we have another player that flatters to decieve. I really hope he proves me wrong but flashes of good play won't make up for his general ineffectiveness. Not quick, not good in the air, not good at holding it up, doesn't get on the end of things, injury prone, does he really want it?

As for the current Manager / Flitcrift, even before this podcast, in every single interview Clarke comes across as the big hard man who tries to belittle the reporter. (Small man syndrome at its best). His disdain and lack of trust for the press is fine, but there's still a way to treat people and he crosses the line on most occasions if he doesn't like the question being asked. Maybe he's different behind the scenes, but interviews are the only time supporters get to hear a Manager speak and I'm finding him a difficult man to like. I get its not a popularity contest, and nice guys often finish last, but there's a way to go about your business and ultimately the players will also think that in time as well. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

As for tearing up last year's squad, I agreed with it in general. What I didn't agree with was getting rid of our best two players, players who without them we would be in the conference or in liquidation, while also treating them really badly on their way out. Did they deserve that? Are their replacements better? This team looks mid table mediocrity at best and if the <ovf censored> hits the fan again, which I suspect it will if things don't pick up in 10 games time, I don't see that we have the quality or characters for Clarke to survive.

The management team have laid this ruthless marker themselves and they need to start getting results to prove it was the right way to go about things. So far it's been a difficult watch with a lot of money spent

There is so much to pick apart from this I don't know where to start.

I'm not going to repeat what I put earlier in this post, but you my friend are clearly in the pocket of a 35 year old semi-professional footballer who is only guaranteed '15 goals a season' for Congleton (if he doesn't get injured or downs tools on the basis of hearing something he doesn't like).

Maybe if TP actually did legitimately 'trust the process' and made some notable headway into coaching (like he insisted he would love to do) instead of crying, mocking people, putting on accents, doing podcasts, writing newspaper columns and tweeting then maybe he wouldn't be playing 8th tier basement football for his mates and the club would involve him in some way. Seems like he's burnt that bridge, any with many fans.

Not why any young players would want to work with him though, because there is a high chance they will be slagged off in public afterwards if he doesn't like what he see's.

Clarke seems to me like a realist and read this whole situation well, Pope comes across like a spoilt brat who is bemoaning his past 5 years decisions/attitude. 

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There is so much to pick apart from this I don't know where to start.

I'm not going to repeat what I put earlier in this post, but you my friend are clearly in the pocket of a 35 year old semi-professional footballer who is only guaranteed '15 goals a season' for Congleton (if he doesn't get injured or downs tools on the basis of hearing something he doesn't like).

Maybe if TP actually did legitimately 'trust the process' and made some notable headway into coaching (like he insisted he would love to do) instead of crying, mocking people, putting on accents, doing podcasts, writing newspaper columns and tweeting then maybe he wouldn't be playing 8th tier basement football for his mates and the club would involve him in some way. Seems like he's burnt that bridge, any with many fans.

Not why any young players would want to work with him though, because there is a high chance they will be slagged off in public afterwards if he doesn't like what he see's.

Clarke seems to me like a realist and read this whole situation well, Pope comes across like a spoilt brat who is bemoaning his past 5 years decisions/attitude. 
He scored 15+ in the league twice in his career. He was just coming into his peak don't you know
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1 hour ago, philmpv said:

He scored 15+ in the league twice in his career. He was just coming into his peak don't you know emoji849.png

I too was wondering where these guaranteed 15 goals a season have been recently? Maybe if he spent more time on the training ground and less time leathered in Burslem golf club clubhouse he might have warranted another season.  

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