Sunderland 'Till I Die.

[blackdog]

Just binged watched the latest Netflix series, it's compulsive viewing showing what goes on behind the scenes of one of the biggest clubs in the country,all the highs lows and near misses, a brilliant documentary series.

[boslemportvale91]

Fantastic viewing and much better then the man city series on amazon in my opinion. Nice little cameo at the vale as well. 

charlie methven seems a massive Bell end , the way he spoke to the staff was disgusting. He could give Norman a run for his money as scumbag of the year. 

[Mario]

1 hour ago, boslemportvale91 said:

Fantastic viewing and much better then the man city series on amazon in my opinion. Nice little cameo at the vale as well. 

charlie methven seems a massive Bell end , the way he spoke to the staff was disgusting. He could give Norman a run for his money as scumbag of the year. 

I thought Methven got it right,he tried to motivate a marketing dept who didn't seem to be interested the girl who left was so negative saying he would do well to sell 28k tickets and they ended up selling 40k plus,also looking on wiki the club was 160m in debt losing 20m a year and he managed to turn that round.

[boslemportvale91]

I thought he came across as David Brent. 

Sunderland fans quickly turned on him after being alienated. It would seem he's now just a shareholder after his resignation from the role last year.

[Joe B]

Watching the January Deadline Day episode is fascinating.

Donald is clearly a decent bloke who wants the best, but is massively out of his depth and being led by emotion ("what if Will Grigg scored a hat-trick in the play off final?"). Wigan know this and play him like a fiddle.

They spent £3m on a 28 year year old who has since got 5 in 38. The idea to buy Grigg wasn't terrible (proven League 1 scorer), but the finances were all wrong. His CEO, his head of football operations, and his manager are all advising against. Donald, ruminating, panicking, makes a solo decision to pull the trigger.

It illustrated to me several traps owners fall in to

1. Making promises - the club promised they'd replace Josh Maja, and put needless pressure on themselves to deliver.

2. Listening to opinions - whilst fans will always need to have a say, Donald is clearly pre-occupied with how the fans will react if they don't sign a striker. The podcasters, fuelled by their own club's self importance, claim it is a let-down if a club 'as big as Sunderland, one of the biggest in the country' failed to sign a striker. It displayed the flawed way we perceive our own clubs, and the demands we make of them.

3. Displaying desperation - it was clear to all of the Sunderland media, and by extension the football world, that Sunderland were absolutely desperate for a forward.

The point of this post is that I cannot imagine Carol ever falling into these traps. She comes across as far too savvy, prudent, and rational to overbid desperately on deadline day. She won't be bullied by dodgy chairmen looking to flog their striker.

I was one of many who really wanted to see reinforcments in January, and was a tad disappointed by the only business being Taylor's extension and Clark's loan signing. The fact we'd been gazumped by Bradford for Guthrie was irritating.

Looking back now, the squad has gone from strength to strength and looked a proper playoff contender, as a result of sensible business. Guthrie hasn't scored for Bradford, despite claims he's on around 4k a week. Clark has been an excellent addition.

Carol didn't panic; there were efforts to sign players in January, but Askey and Carol have consistently attested that January is silly season, and they won't be signing players for the sake of it; the price has to be right. To have made a profit out of Richie Bennett (around 20k), after signing him on a free, and getting 6 months of reasonable service, is an example of how sensibly we are being operated.

Just an important lesson to learn for me, whilst watching Sunderland implode; be grateful we have a chairlady who is far too sensible to throw money at overpriced players. We saved a good chunk of money which, if things weren't so crazy currently, could have been used in the more sensible summer transfer market.

Remind me of this post when I kick off in January 2022 because Carol hasn't funded a new striker.

[Joe B]

Another thing I've learned;

Every fan of every club thinks their team is 'special'. Yep, fair enough, it is to us, that's the beauty of football.

Some of the way the Sunderland fans laud their own club, however, who are famous for sacking managers and relegation battles, as this monolithic behemoth institution of which League 1 clubs should tremble in fear, is proper mad. I get some of the same (though not quite as extreme) vibes from Vale fans, from time to time, an inflated sense of importance for a club which, bar John Rudge, has been a 3rd/4th tier outfit for virtually its entire existence. Obviously, that doesn't hinder ambition, but shouldn't discredit realism either.

 

[Brian]

2 hours ago, Joe B said:

Watching the January Deadline Day episode is fascinating.

Donald is clearly a decent bloke who wants the best, but is massively out of his depth and being led by emotion ("what if Will Grigg scored a hat-trick in the play off final?"). Wigan know this and play him like a fiddle.

They spent £3m on a 28 year year old who has since got 5 in 38. The idea to buy Grigg wasn't terrible (proven League 1 scorer), but the finances were all wrong. His CEO, his head of football operations, and his manager are all advising against. Donald, ruminating, panicking, makes a solo decision to pull the trigger.

It illustrated to me several traps owners fall in to

1. Making promises - the club promised they'd replace Josh Maja, and put needless pressure on themselves to deliver.

2. Listening to opinions - whilst fans will always need to have a say, Donald is clearly pre-occupied with how the fans will react if they don't sign a striker. The podcasters, fuelled by their own club's self importance, claim it is a let-down if a club 'as big as Sunderland, one of the biggest in the country' failed to sign a striker. It displayed the flawed way we perceive our own clubs, and the demands we make of them.

3. Displaying desperation - it was clear to all of the Sunderland media, and by extension the football world, that Sunderland were absolutely desperate for a forward.

The point of this post is that I cannot imagine Carol ever falling into these traps. She comes across as far too savvy, prudent, and rational to overbid desperately on deadline day. She won't be bullied by dodgy chairmen looking to flog their striker.

I was one of many who really wanted to see reinforcments in January, and was a tad disappointed by the only business being Taylor's extension and Clark's loan signing. The fact we'd been gazumped by Bradford for Guthrie was irritating.

Looking back now, the squad has gone from strength to strength and looked a proper playoff contender, as a result of sensible business. Guthrie hasn't scored for Bradford, despite claims he's on around 4k a week. Clark has been an excellent addition.

Carol didn't panic; there were efforts to sign players in January, but Askey and Carol have consistently attested that January is silly season, and they won't be signing players for the sake of it; the price has to be right. To have made a profit out of Richie Bennett (around 20k), after signing him on a free, and getting 6 months of reasonable service, is an example of how sensibly we are being operated.

Just an important lesson to learn for me, whilst watching Sunderland implode; be grateful we have a chairlady who is far too sensible to throw money at overpriced players. We saved a good chunk of money which, if things weren't so crazy currently, could have been used in the more sensible summer transfer market.

Remind me of this post when I kick off in January 2022 because Carol hasn't funded a new striker.

The other thing Carol has is a football management team who are there for the long run, and not interested in short term gambles/fixes. 

Watch the rebuild when the close season comes around

[Emile]

For arguments sake lets say Grigg and Maja are on the same money.

They get 1.5 million euros for Maja - around 1.3 million

Buy Will Grigg for 3 million 

Down 1.7 million

Where on earth is the logic of 'cashing in' here? Surely if you kept him and sell him for nout you've still got 1.7 million to replace him with in the summer if he still does leave on a free? 

I know some players will stop wanting to play if they have a transfer blocked but good player management would keep him fit and eager to impress if he did want to leave in the summer. Get promoted and perhaps he would have stayed anyway.

[philpvfc]

On 13/04/2020 at 14:59, Joe B said:

Another thing I've learned;

Every fan of every club thinks their team is 'special'. Yep, fair enough, it is to us, that's the beauty of football.

Some of the way the Sunderland fans laud their own club, however, who are famous for sacking managers and relegation battles, as this monolithic behemoth institution of which League 1 clubs should tremble in fear, is proper mad. I get some of the same (though not quite as extreme) vibes from Vale fans, from time to time, an inflated sense of importance for a club which, bar John Rudge, has been a 3rd/4th tier outfit for virtually its entire existence. Obviously, that doesn't hinder ambition, but shouldn't discredit realism either.

 

We have spent more time in the second tier since joining the league.

[philpvfc]

On 14/04/2020 at 13:31, Emile said:

For arguments sake lets say Grigg and Maja are on the same money.

They get 1.5 million euros for Maja - around 1.3 million

Buy Will Grigg for 3 million 

Down 1.7 million

Where on earth is the logic of 'cashing in' here? Surely if you kept him and sell him for nout you've still got 1.7 million to replace him with in the summer if he still does leave on a free? 

I know some players will stop wanting to play if they have a transfer blocked but good player management would keep him fit and eager to impress if he did want to leave in the summer. Get promoted and perhaps he would have stayed anyway.

There was no way his agent was going to let him stay. Getting 1.5 million was good business, paying 3 million for Grigg was bad business.

[Emile]

His agent couldn't stop him leaving in January - he was contracted to the end of the season. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8196735/The-true-story-Josh-Majas-Bordeaux-Netflixs-Sunderland-Til-Die.html

 

 

[TJHValiant]

On 21/04/2020 at 15:02, philpvfc said:

We have spent more time in the second tier since joining the league.

That’s absolutely true. In fact we have spent the least time in the 4th division. 
 

Although post war, it is an even spread. 3rd division majority. 

[For Us All]

On 13/04/2020 at 14:51, Joe B said:

Watching the January Deadline Day episode is fascinating.

Donald is clearly a decent bloke who wants the best, but is massively out of his depth and being led by emotion ("what if Will Grigg scored a hat-trick in the play off final?"). Wigan know this and play him like a fiddle.

They spent £3m on a 28 year year old who has since got 5 in 38. The idea to buy Grigg wasn't terrible (proven League 1 scorer), but the finances were all wrong. His CEO, his head of football operations, and his manager are all advising against. Donald, ruminating, panicking, makes a solo decision to pull the trigger.

It illustrated to me several traps owners fall in to

1. Making promises - the club promised they'd replace Josh Maja, and put needless pressure on themselves to deliver.

2. Listening to opinions - whilst fans will always need to have a say, Donald is clearly pre-occupied with how the fans will react if they don't sign a striker. The podcasters, fuelled by their own club's self importance, claim it is a let-down if a club 'as big as Sunderland, one of the biggest in the country' failed to sign a striker. It displayed the flawed way we perceive our own clubs, and the demands we make of them.

3. Displaying desperation - it was clear to all of the Sunderland media, and by extension the football world, that Sunderland were absolutely desperate for a forward.

The point of this post is that I cannot imagine Carol ever falling into these traps. She comes across as far too savvy, prudent, and rational to overbid desperately on deadline day. She won't be bullied by dodgy chairmen looking to flog their striker.

I was one of many who really wanted to see reinforcments in January, and was a tad disappointed by the only business being Taylor's extension and Clark's loan signing. The fact we'd been gazumped by Bradford for Guthrie was irritating.

Looking back now, the squad has gone from strength to strength and looked a proper playoff contender, as a result of sensible business. Guthrie hasn't scored for Bradford, despite claims he's on around 4k a week. Clark has been an excellent addition.

Carol didn't panic; there were efforts to sign players in January, but Askey and Carol have consistently attested that January is silly season, and they won't be signing players for the sake of it; the price has to be right. To have made a profit out of Richie Bennett (around 20k), after signing him on a free, and getting 6 months of reasonable service, is an example of how sensibly we are being operated.

Just an important lesson to learn for me, whilst watching Sunderland implode; be grateful we have a chairlady who is far too sensible to throw money at overpriced players. We saved a good chunk of money which, if things weren't so crazy currently, could have been used in the more sensible summer transfer market.

Remind me of this post when I kick off in January 2022 because Carol hasn't funded a new striker.

Manager Jack Ross even advised Stewart Donald not to pay over £2m for Grigg but was ignored.

[Jacko51]

We binge watched the whole of the second series on Saturday evening.  It's compulsive viewing even though you know what's going to happen.

[For Us All]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

We binge watched the whole of the second series on Saturday evening.  It's compulsive viewing even though you know what's going to happen.

Will the Toon be doing a series when the takeover is complete.They might become the next Man.City.

Would be very interesting?