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Yeah that was me being lazy on the OVF political forum Leedsvaliant and using left as an umbrella term. 

 

It's a part of the left, a majority in fact, I just don't have a better description for these people. 

 

I respect left wing people who can see this <ovf censored> for what it is far more than most right wingers. Despite what most of them will say on here I'm not particularly right wing. (They use it as a smear but can't really explain how or why they mean it - where have we seen those tactics before?)

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39 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Yeah that was me being lazy on the OVF political forum Leedsvaliant and using left as an umbrella term. 

 

It's a part of the left, a majority in fact, I just don't have a better description for these people. 

 

I respect left wing people who can see this <ovf censored> for what it is far more than most right wingers. Despite what most of them will say on here I'm not particularly right wing. (They use it as a smear but can't really explain how or why they mean it - where have we seen those tactics before?)

Out of interest if you are not right wing where would you say you are?

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58 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Yeah that was me being lazy on the OVF political forum Leedsvaliant and using left as an umbrella term. 

 

It's a part of the left, a majority in fact, I just don't have a better description for these people. 

 

I respect left wing people who can see this <ovf censored> for what it is far more than most right wingers. Despite what most of them will say on here I'm not particularly right wing. (They use it as a smear but can't really explain how or why they mean it - where have we seen those tactics before?)

You are obsessed with the so called Left, according to you they are responsible for Covid, immigrants etc. Don’t forget to check under your bed they get everywhere 

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43 minutes ago, ginge said:

Out of interest if you are not right wing where would you say you are?

I don't really like the term but libertarian fits most closely. It makes me centre right by default because I would always favour smaller states in favour of individual liberty. 

 

Other than that, I have some right wing view, some left wing views and I'd even say I'd have been a labour supporter back when they were the party of the working class. Though that's going back a few decades. I follow a few people who 5-10 years ago would have been fully fledged labour members and I agree with them on a lot of things. 

 

Basically, the term centrist is a bit of a cop out in my view, and I'd definitely say I'm more right than left, but I don't think I have any particularly extreme political views. Staunch yes, extreme no.

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26 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

You are obsessed with the so called Left, according to you they are responsible for Covid, immigrants etc. Don’t forget to check under your bed they get everywhere 

 

You are obsessed with me. It's a bit weird to be honest.

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Yeah that was me being lazy on the OVF political forum Leedsvaliant and using left as an umbrella term. 
 
It's a part of the left, a majority in fact, I just don't have a better description for these people. 
 
I respect left wing people who can see this for what it is far more than most right wingers. Despite what most of them will say on here I'm not particularly right wing. (They use it as a smear but can't really explain how or why they mean it - where have we seen those tactics before?)
I would say there is a gaping chasm in the centre of politics for those who agree with both right and left wing policies.

The Labour party has been taken over by ultra left wing types or champagne socialists, whereby their main priority is to look virtuous, irrelevant of what effect that has on the people they serve. Never did I think that the labour party would support policies in the last 2 years that will destroy the people and communities that they purport to serve, but they have with relish and without question. They just wanted to look holier than thou rather than truly getting a balanced view of the situation. Not once did any party listen to alternative views or consider alternative takes on the data, which were put forward by very intelligent and knowledgeable people, not someone on Facebook.

Then you have the Tories who have become a mix of the far right (Patel, JRM) and the left leaning, woke green agenda brigade. Their core voters probably didn't suffer too much over the last 2 years and in fact some have become even wealthier...including members of the government. Then you've got Tories and Labour who are just thick, career politicians , with zero knowledge or idea of what they have voted for.

I said that my parents had a meeting with our local MP...he did not have a clue about anything to do with Covid. He knew nothing. If it was my job and I represented people, I would want to know and understand everything, even if I didn't agree with it. The problem is that the media has been like a rabid dog and has deified the NHS to such an extent that the weak politicians (barring a handful) didn't dare go against the narrative. I know people who have lost friends because they have dared to question ze motherland.

We always said that being under someone like the nazis would never happen in this country. But as Micky Adams used to say, people have rolled over and had their bellies tickled. It shows how easy it can be for people to slide into tyranny. No questions, no reasoning, no thought. People are still wearing masks for goodness sake. It's beyond pathetic.




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  • 3 weeks later...

So, the Sue Gray report has come out in full. What a surprise that the press are up in arms about the rules being broken, yet not one of them has questioned why the rules were being broken regularly and with wanton abandon.

To me, the issue with partygate has always been that these people clearly knew the rules were ridiculous, knew that they or their families were at very little risk and carried on as normal.

These are the people that had the very highest levels of access to 'the science ' and yet still felt it was absolutely fine to have close contact shindigs with people that they don't live with. Doesn't that tell you something ?

Why does nobody analyse that aspect?

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59 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

So, the Sue Gray report has come out in full. What a surprise that the press are up in arms about the rules being broken, yet not one of them has questioned why the rules were being broken regularly and with wanton abandon.

To me, the issue with partygate has always been that these people clearly knew the rules were ridiculous, knew that they or their families were at very little risk and carried on as normal.

These are the people that had the very highest levels of access to 'the science ' and yet still felt it was absolutely fine to have close contact shindigs with people that they don't live with. Doesn't that tell you something ?

Why does nobody analyse that aspect?

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They knew the rules they made them, if in your opinion the rules were ridiculous that’s ok. But regardless the public followed them, that is the law. What annoys me is Johnson is still continuing to deny, even now.

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I get that. But nobody seems to ask WHY they didn't bother.

If it was a truly deadly pandemic with everyone susceptible, they would not have dared break any rules for their own and their families safety....yet they did.

So that clearly points to the fact that this wasn't the great plague that they tried to build and they knew that they and their families were perfectly safe by them fraternising together on a regular basis.

I'm no fan of Boris but I'm also not a fan of people decrying people for leading a normal life and interacting with other human beings. That's where the people of this country have sunk to. It also bred the council busybodies fining people for walking, the funeral directors ensuring people who wanted to comfort each other remained apart, closing gyms which is a mental lifeline for some, the police arresting people for having a coffee out in the countryside.

What amazes me is how accepting people were and are of this abhorrent behaviour.

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Cognitive dissonance.

 

You can't sensibly hold the view that they told the truth to us about the risk of gathering in groups (so much so that they made it illegal) yet lied to us about breaking their own rules. Especially when to hold that view, by extension, you'd also have to believe that these people would risk their own lives and their families lives, to have some cake or a glass of wine, in an office party.

 

It simply does not add up. 

 

But people have to protect themselves from being wrong and so they don't acknowledge that their two opinions cannot realistically both be true. It's such a difficult position to argue that they simply don't argue it. They know how ridiculous they sound on some level, that is why they can't answer you leedsvaliant.

 

Note: the moral argument is absolutely valid here, it's completely legitimate to be angry at a Government who breaks a law and especially so when wrote the law. But as has been said, the first (and in my opinion far more serious) breach was when they passed that law to begin with.

 

 

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Cognitive dissonance.
 
You can't sensibly hold the view that they told the truth to us about the risk of gathering in groups (so much so that they made it illegal) yet lied to us about breaking their own rules. Especially when to hold that view, by extension, you'd also have to believe that these people would risk their own lives and their families lives, to have some cake or a glass of wine, in an office party.
 
It simply does not add up. 
 
But people have to protect themselves from being wrong and so they don't acknowledge that their two opinions cannot realistically both be true. It's such a difficult position to argue that they simply don't argue it. They know how ridiculous they sound on some level, that is why they can't answer you leedsvaliant.
 
Note: the moral argument is absolutely valid here, it's completely legitimate to be angry at a Government who breaks a law and especially so when wrote the law. But as has been said, the first (and in my opinion far more serious) breach was when they passed that law to begin with.
 
 
As always RB, absolutely spot on.

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I too am finding it difficult to understand why people are not asking why the politicians are not scared.

While troubled about the logic of the scare after about a week of lockdown I was broadly compliant for a while.

I used the wretched and useless hand sanitiser against the airborne virus at £6.99 a bottle compared to the pre pandemic £1.99. I stayed way from visiting my elderly mother except for visits from outside the window speaking to her on the phone from outside her house.

Then I became more and more sceptical.

The mask nonsense in shops after 4 months of a deadly plague was what annoyed me the most. Absolute nonsense.

Then I posted on here my concerns about the alleged vaccine. I was questioned by several people and apologised.

However now I want to say that I don’t think this vaccine does any good at all and overall it harms people.

Why have so many more people got covid after having the vaccine than before the vaccine was brought out?

Those that are usually sceptical question big business and the government. I am troubled why a lot of people stopped questioning this and I do not know the answer and would politely ask anyone who is usually sceptical why they stopped being so.

Also I said I thought that Bill Gates was genuine. Well I take that back in spades. He’s in this for the money and control. 

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I too am finding it difficult to understand why people are not asking why the politicians are not scared.
While troubled about the logic of the scare after about a week of lockdown I was broadly compliant for a while.
I used the wretched and useless hand sanitiser against the airborne virus at £6.99 a bottle compared to the pre pandemic £1.99. I stayed way from visiting my elderly mother except for visits from outside the window speaking to her on the phone from outside her house.
Then I became more and more sceptical.
The mask nonsense in shops after 4 months of a deadly plague was what annoyed me the most. Absolute nonsense.
Then I posted on here my concerns about the alleged vaccine. I was questioned by several people and apologised.
However now I want to say that I don’t think this vaccine does any good at all and overall it harms people.
Why have so many more people got covid after having the vaccine than before the vaccine was brought out?
Those that are usually sceptical question big business and the government. I am troubled why a lot of people stopped questioning this and I do not know the answer and would politely ask anyone who is usually sceptical why they stopped being so.
Also I said I thought that Bill Gates was genuine. Well I take that back in spades. He’s in this for the money and control. 


There's a number of things at play here.

Most people do anything for a quiet life. They don't want to upset the apple cart and go against the grain. They were told this was a terrible, plague like virus, they were told that everyone was susceptible, they were told that anyone that didn't follow the rules is a granny killer, they heard about those who had questioned the benefits of lockdown and how they were evil and didn't care. All their friends got involved in the pot bashing for the NHS, the 'stay safe ' mantra, the neighbours snooping on each other's activity. The sneering at anyone who didn't wear a mask. The media tells them every day how terrible the situation is with no context.

When faced with that sort of one sided narrative, most people will go along to get along.

Most people are also intellectually lazy. They might watch the 6 o clock news, they might occasionally read a newspaper and such was the pro lockdown, one sided reporting that your average person will just believe that side. They can't be bothered to find out any more or understand other views. They're more interested in love island or Facebook.

I've been slammed on here for my views. Called selfish and all sorts of other things. That's why people don't go against the grain.

The vaccines are a different argument really. Were they necessary on the scale that they've been implemented? No. Many experts have questioned the validity of giving a vaccine to anyone under 16 because they simply don't need them and are more likely to come to harm from them than Covid.

Have they had the effect that people hoped ? No. The intention was that like a traditional vaccine, they would significantly reduce transmission. They haven't. At all. And they've come with significant harms of which more evidence comes each day. But again, nobody can dare question the miraculous vaccines . It's the same thing as the lockdowns really. Vaccines =good, anyone questioning vaccine=evil.

Much of the rest has been about saving face. Governments have crippled their economies, killed people who would otherwise have lived, crippled their health services. All for a virus that was never even close to an existential threat. They couldn't possibly come out and say 'actually it wasn't as bad as we thought it was going to be '. They'd dug themselves too deep, pinned everything on their ridiculous response. There would have been mutiny. Better to maintain that everything they did was absolutely necessary for our own sakes.

It's easy to manipulate data. Excess deaths never tell the whole story. How many of the excess deaths were down to the response, rather than Covid itself? How many old, ill people were too scared to attend hospital? How many illnesses were missed by GP's who appeared to down tools? How many things have been left untreated? How many people living in nursing homes or with dementia been left to die?

The only thing we ever had as a marker that something was happening is an unreliable, unfit for purpose test. As stated by the test's inventor.




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5 hours ago, portvaleofbelvoir said:

I too am finding it difficult to understand why people are not asking why the politicians are not scared.

While troubled about the logic of the scare after about a week of lockdown I was broadly compliant for a while.

I used the wretched and useless hand sanitiser against the airborne virus at £6.99 a bottle compared to the pre pandemic £1.99. I stayed way from visiting my elderly mother except for visits from outside the window speaking to her on the phone from outside her house.

Then I became more and more sceptical.

The mask nonsense in shops after 4 months of a deadly plague was what annoyed me the most. Absolute nonsense.

Then I posted on here my concerns about the alleged vaccine. I was questioned by several people and apologised.

However now I want to say that I don’t think this vaccine does any good at all and overall it harms people.

Why have so many more people got covid after having the vaccine than before the vaccine was brought out?

Those that are usually sceptical question big business and the government. I am troubled why a lot of people stopped questioning this and I do not know the answer and would politely ask anyone who is usually sceptical why they stopped being so.

Also I said I thought that Bill Gates was genuine. Well I take that back in spades. He’s in this for the money and control. 

The answer is complicated in its entirety but quite simple in its make up.

Part of it is the portrayal of a species extinction plague, the belief by the public that politicians won't/wouldn't lie and the ridicule and shut down of any dissenting voices...... contrary to free speech.

The best way to control a population without violence is by fear reinforced by propaganda that supports the concept that authority is only making decisions that help you..... and anyone who does not follow blindly is a danger.

Which given partygate and driving whilst blind and currygate and etc etc etc makes it all surreal. 

Let's be honest, Boris was a known liar before the plague but people believed him. His cohorts were called out as liars but they were believed (unless it was to make a party political point). The only information available supported the narrative pushed by the government. The only information published by the press was selective.

If anyone anywhere in the world died within 28 days of the war between Russia and Ukraine the war must be a contributing factor or the direct cause of the death..... that sounds as stupid as it is.... but wait.....

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The answer is complicated in its entirety but quite simple in its make up.
Part of it is the portrayal of a species extinction plague, the belief by the public that politicians won't/wouldn't lie and the ridicule and shut down of any dissenting voices...... contrary to free speech.
The best way to control a population without violence is by fear reinforced by propaganda that supports the concept that authority is only making decisions that help you..... and anyone who does not follow blindly is a danger.
Which given partygate and driving whilst blind and currygate and etc etc etc makes it all surreal. 
Let's be honest, Boris was a known liar before the plague but people believed him. His cohorts were called out as liars but they were believed (unless it was to make a party political point). The only information available supported the narrative pushed by the government. The only information published by the press was selective.
If anyone anywhere in the world died within 28 days of the war between Russia and Ukraine the war must be a contributing factor or the direct cause of the death..... that sounds as stupid as it is.... but wait.....
I agree. But yet there are still intelligent people out there who still go along with it....even now!

Wasn't the premise that masks protect others and not the wearer? Why, therefore, are singular people still wearing them in shops when 99% of people aren't? Do they believe they are protecting themselves? I'm desperate to go up and ask them about their reasoning behind wearing a mask still and also at what point they'll deem it 'safe ' not to. Don't they believe that their 3/4 jabs will work? Genuinely, and I truly mean this, they need psychiatric treatment. They've been truly frightened and harpooned by the propoganda and those that bestowed this fear upon them should struggle to sleep at night.

Honestly I didn't realise how naive and stupid some people can be. Some people who I previously deemed as intelligent have lost their minds. I've noticed a few features in papers recently, where editorial even in places like the Guardian are saying that perhaps lockdown was a grievous and disastrous policy decision. And people wonder why their financial position is so perilous. If more people would have stood up at the start of this and called it out, we'd have had far less deaths and wouldn't be in such an awful financial mess. Genuinely we get what we deserve.

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16 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I agree. But yet there are still intelligent people out there who still go along with it....even now!

Wasn't the premise that masks protect others and not the wearer? Why, therefore, are singular people still wearing them in shops when 99% of people aren't? Do they believe they are protecting themselves? I'm desperate to go up and ask them about their reasoning behind wearing a mask still and also at what point they'll deem it 'safe ' not to. Don't they believe that their 3/4 jabs will work? Genuinely, and I truly mean this, they need psychiatric treatment. They've been truly frightened and harpooned by the propoganda and those that bestowed this fear upon them should struggle to sleep at night.

Honestly I didn't realise how naive and stupid some people can be. Some people who I previously deemed as intelligent have lost their minds. I've noticed a few features in papers recently, where editorial even in places like the Guardian are saying that perhaps lockdown was a grievous and disastrous policy decision. And people wonder why their financial position is so perilous. If more people would have stood up at the start of this and called it out, we'd have had far less deaths and wouldn't be in such an awful financial mess. Genuinely we get what we deserve.

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You seem to be an Expert on Coronavirus don’t you.

If I want to wear a mask I will wear a mask and if someone like you asked me why, I would tell you where to go.

I will then go for my Psychiatric Treatment, Myself and others seem to need, according to your opinion.

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You seem to be an Expert on Coronavirus don’t you.
If I want to wear a mask I will wear a mask and if someone like you asked me why, I would tell you where to go.
I will then go for my Psychiatric Treatment, Myself and others seem to need, according to your opinion.


Not an expert, no. But I'm truly fascinated at the mental gymnastics of someone who wears a mask when nobody around them is wearing one, when they apparently don't protect the wearer (or anybody else but that's for another day).

If you can give me a good reason then fair enough. What I think is going on here is that you don't want to admit you've been fooled so better to dig deeper to save face?

If you do still wear a mask I genuinely feel sorry for you. Please seek help.

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4 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:


 

 


Not an expert, no. But I'm truly fascinated at the mental gymnastics of someone who wears a mask when nobody around them is wearing one, when they apparently don't protect the wearer (or anybody else but that's for another day).

If you can give me a good reason then fair enough. What I think is going on here is that you don't want to admit you've been fooled so better to dig deeper to save face?

If you do still wear a mask I genuinely feel sorry for you. Please seek help.

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If he wants to wear a mask that is absolutely fine, people still do.  You are not an expert just someone who puts out loads of dribble, all along the same lines.

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