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1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

LV just to remind you I stated weeks ago that was not posting on this thread because of disgusting claims. I do look and still see the mistruths you are still posting. I am sure other OVF posters feel the same as myself.

Thank goodness for people like the music icon Neil Young, who has left Spotify because of the cranky info they are putting out, just like yourself RB and VPL, still spreading the fake info, and doing your utmost to ensure that Covid continues, goodbye and hopefully you will stay silent, but I doubt it.

Just know tommy that every time I don't wear a mask...which is all the time...I'm not wearing it for your freedom. And you are very welcome.

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2 hours ago, wotsyobeef said:
6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
I thought the same in the red lion the other week. People cheek to jowel and then later on they nip into tesco on the way home and put a mask on even now they are no longer required. The mental gymnastics of these people to justify their actions must be something to behold.

All of you in the red lion chose to go to the pub. Vulnerable Betty has no choice but to go to Tesco to get her bread and milk. By wearing your mask in tesco you are less likely to pass the virus onto Betty. Hardly mental gymnastics. Your cloth mask may not offer you any protection but does reduce the chance you make Betty ill.

On the other hand, wearing your mask does not reduce the chance of making Betty ill but will increase the chance of you becoming ill and also stunt the communicative development of your children. 

 

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2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

LV just to remind you I stated weeks ago that was not posting on this thread because of disgusting claims. I do look and still see the mistruths you are still posting. I am sure other OVF posters feel the same as myself.

Thank goodness for people like the music icon Neil Young, who has left Spotify because of the cranky info they are putting out, just like yourself RB and VPL, still spreading the fake info, and doing your utmost to ensure that Covid continues, goodbye and hopefully you will stay silent, but I doubt it.

Fake info = peer reviewed, science and medical studies?

Cranky info = scientists and medical professionals on the Joe Rogan podcast?

What a world we live in! 😂😂

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14 hours ago, valeparklife said:

I wasn't going to do this. But why is your first thought about ridiculing and abusing me? Like so many of the other cult members.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

“Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results…the recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use.”

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

"A cluster-randomized trial of community-level mask promotion in rural Bangladesh from November 2020 to April 2021 (N=600 villages, N=342,126 adults. Heneghan writes: “In a Bangladesh study, surgical masks reduced symptomatic COVID infections by between 0 and 22 percent, while the efficacy of cloth masks led to somewhere between an 11 percent increase to a 21 percent decrease. Hence, based on these randomized studies, adult masks appear to have either no or limited efficacy.”

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2021-11/working-paper-64.pdf

“The available clinical evidence of facemask efficacy is of low quality and the best available clinical evidence has mostly failed to show efficacy, with fourteen of sixteen identified randomized controlled trials comparing face masks to no mask controls failing to find statistically significant benefit in the intent-to-treat populations. Of sixteen quantitative meta-analyses, eight were equivocal or critical as to whether evidence supports a public recommendation of masks, and the remaining eight supported a public mask intervention on limited evidence primarily on the basis of the precautionary principle.”

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

“We agree that the data supporting the effectiveness of a cloth mask or face covering are very limited. We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing…though we support mask wearing by the general public, we continue to conclude that cloth masks and face coverings are likely to have limited impact on lowering COVID-19 transmission, because they have minimal ability to prevent the emission of small particles, offer limited personal protection with respect to small particle inhalation, and should not be recommended as a replacement for physical distancing or reducing time in enclosed spaces with many potentially infectious people.”

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

“We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic…The calculus may be different, however, in health care settings. First and foremost, a mask is a core component of the personal protective equipment (PPE) clinicians need when caring for symptomatic patients with respiratory viral infections, in conjunction with gown, gloves, and eye protection…universal masking alone is not a panacea. A mask will not protect providers caring for a patient with active Covid-19 if it’s not accompanied by meticulous hand hygiene, eye protection, gloves, and a gown. A mask alone will not prevent health care workers with early Covid-19 from contaminating their hands and spreading the virus to patients and colleagues. Focusing on universal masking alone may, paradoxically, lead to more transmission of Covid-19 if it diverts attention from implementing more fundamental infection-control measures.”

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0057100

“Nevertheless, high-efficiency masks, such as the KN95, still offer substantially higher apparent filtration efficiencies (60% and 46% for R95 and KN95 masks, respectively) than the more commonly used cloth (10%) and surgical masks (12%), and therefore are still the recommended choice in mitigating airborne disease transmission indoors.”

https://www.aier.org/article/masking-a-careful-review-of-the-evidence/

“In fact, it is not unreasonable at this time to conclude that surgical and cloth masks, used as they currently are, have absolutely no impact on controlling the transmission of Covid-19 virus, and current evidence implies that face masks can be actually harmful.”

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30985-3/fulltext

“We observed no association of risk of transmission with reported mask usage by contacts, with the age or sex of the index case, or with the presence of respiratory symptoms in the index case at the initial study visit.”

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf?ua=1

“Ten RCTs were included in the meta-analysis, and there was no evidence that face masks are effective in reducing transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v2

“There was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures. We found insufficient evidence for a difference between surgical masks and N95 respirators and limited evidence to support effectiveness of quarantine.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

“The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression.”

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

“Most studies found little to no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks in the general population, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.18.21257385v1

“Mask mandates and use are not associated with slower state-level COVID-19 spread during COVID-19 growth surges.”

https://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-reasons-mandatory-face-masks-are-unsafe-ineffective-and-immoral/5735171

“A CDC-funded review on masking in May 2020 came to the conclusion: “Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza… None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group.” If masks can’t stop the regular flu, how can they stop SAR-CoV-2?”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371574/

“Conclusion: The COVID-19 pandemic has led to critical shortages of medical-grade PPE. Alternative forms of facial protection offer inferior protection. More robust evidence is required on different types of medical-grade facial protection. As research on COVID-19 advances, investigators should continue to examine the impact on alternatives of medical-grade facial protection”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.18.21257385v2

“Calculated total COVID-19 case growth and mask use for the continental United States with data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. We estimated post-mask mandate case growth in non-mandate states using median issuance dates of neighboring states with mandates…did not observe association between mask mandates or use and reduced COVID-19 spread in US states.”

https://www.aier.org/article/the-cdcs-mask-mandate-study-debunked/

“Thus, it is not surprising that the CDC’s own recent conclusion on the use of nonpharmaceutical measures such as face masks in pandemic influenza, warned that scientific “evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission…” Moreover, in the WHO’s 2019 guidance document on nonpharmaceutical public health measures in a pandemic, they reported as to face masks that “there is no evidence that this is effective in reducing transmission…” Similarly, in the fine print to a recent double-blind, double-masking simulation the CDC stated that “The findings of these simulations [supporting mask usage] should neither be generalized to the effectiveness …nor interpreted as being representative of the effectiveness of these masks when worn in real-world settings.”

https://rationalground.com/dangerous-pathogens-found-on-childrens-face-masks/

“Masks were contaminated with bacteria, parasites, and fungi, including three with dangerous pathogenic and pneumonia-causing bacteria.”

https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-doctor-warns-bacterial-pneumonias-rise-mask-wearing

“I’m seeing patients that have facial rashes, fungal infections, bacterial infections. Reports coming from my colleagues, all over the world, are suggesting that the bacterial pneumonias are on the rise…Why might that be? Because untrained members of the public are wearing medical masks, repeatedly… in a non-sterile fashion… They’re becoming contaminated. They’re pulling them off of their car seat, off the rear-view mirror, out of their pocket, from their countertop, and they’re reapplying a mask that should be worn fresh and sterile every single time.”

VPL, There are articles in the literature that say masks work and there are articles that say masks don't work, it depends on the quality of the research and work done and not the number of articles although I'm sure if I wanted to I could find many more articles that are positive for wearing masks from quality institutions.

Because I'm not going to review every single literature publication about masks I'm happy to rely on someone like the CDC or FDA to do that work for me and I'll take their recommendations, after all wearing a mask is no big deal. I'm certainly not going to rely on one doctor who may be a crank or some dude or agency I know nothing about to influence my thoughts.

Out of interest have you read any of those articles you've posted.

I posted the statement that I wasn't ridiculing and abusing you because I am not interested in doing anything like that, as above I've just given you a reasoned response. I won't reply to your mask response which is actually ridiculing and abusing me and that's also ignoring your cognitive dissonance post.

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All of you in the red lion chose to go to the pub. Vulnerable Betty has no choice but to go to Tesco to get her bread and milk. By wearing your mask in tesco you are less likely to pass the virus onto Betty. Hardly mental gymnastics. Your cloth mask may not offer you any protection but does reduce the chance you make Betty ill.


No it doesn't. Why are you still swallowing this crap?

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9 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

'Any mask is better than no mask' is not a very scientific way of proving their efficacy. What if their efficacy is 0.00000001%? Is that still worth it? It would still make that statement technically true.

In terms of the vaccines, I think we've all been over this point many times. Yes, for those over a certain age or highly vulnerable, they are on balance probably worth having. I don't think anybody would question that. Even then, the chances of an old or vulnerable person dying from Covid is extremely small, so people should still have the choice, even if they know they may be putting themselves at a small risk.

For the rest of the population, I believe that coercing them into taking a vaccine that they do not need and with not yet fully understood side effects, is dangerous. We are learning now that they only potentially reduce transmission slightly and that doesn't last very long, so it's not like taking the vaccines is helping other people. The other argument I hear is that unvaccinated people would take up hospital beds - what I would say is that the vast majority of people who have refused vaccines would never likely get ill enough from Covid to require a hospital bed in the first place.  Additionally, we don't treat alcoholics or smokers as outcasts because they require medical treatment due to a lifestyle choice do we?

 

On 26/01/2022 at 04:06, leedsvaliant said:

I agree that the benefits of a vaccine probably outweigh the negative effects for those over the age of 70 or those with serious underlying health issues, just as I would advise people in this age bracket to get the flu vaccine. Even then though, the risk to an individual of being seriously ill with Covid (with or without a vaccine) is extremely small, but still on balance probably worth protecting from. As with any vaccine though, this should always be a personal choice.

For anybody else under 70, the absolute risk reduction is negligible (and we are still seeing more and more adverse reactions as the days go by, so we are not yet fully aware of exactly how much the positives outweigh the benefits) and in the very young it is actually more dangerous to have the vaccine than to get Covid - the JCVI said that 12-18 year old net benefit was negligible yet they still went ahead and did it! It's bizarre, sinister and should be questioned.

I use the term 'worshippers' in a slightly facetious manner but the thrust of my argument is that people have genuinely turned Covid into a religion and any question of the religion is met with fire and brimstone. It has been set as those that agree with the narrative and think that everyone should have the vaccines as 'good and virtuous' and those who rally against the narrative and question the vaccines are seen as 'evil and selfish'. That's what good propaganda does for you.

LV, Even if the benefit of a mask is small I will take it. The benefit of a mask isn't only protection to the wearer but also preventing people who are infected and show no symptoms from spreading the virus.

There is more to this virus than you or I know, for a start we are not in the Hospitals or ICU's to see the suffering and we know little know of the long term effects.

There is no doubt the vaccines work and for the people who have little health risks the benefit of the vaccines are that the vaccine has primed their immune system to kill the virus so they will have less chance to spread the virus and importantly the virus will have less chance to mutate into a potentially more harmful variant.....anywhere in the world.

I know you diss the epidemiological science but maybe you're unaware of the superb science that goes on at the molecular level which has uncovered how the virus binds to the surface protein on host cells etc etc, which helps to design drugs, understand mutations and their ramifications etc and the biology of the immune response to the virus and vaccines. This and similar work on Covid antibodies under pins the whole vaccine ball game.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2180-5

 

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LV just to remind you I stated weeks ago that was not posting on this thread because of disgusting claims. I do look and still see the mistruths you are still posting. I am sure other OVF posters feel the same as myself.
Thank goodness for people like the music icon Neil Young, who has left Spotify because of the cranky info they are putting out, just like yourself RB and VPL, still spreading the fake info, and doing your utmost to ensure that Covid continues, goodbye and hopefully you will stay silent, but I doubt it.


Roughly translated "I've been quiet all this time because my argument is crumbling by the day." Please tell me what mistruths I am spreading... You never seem to be able to tell me. How am I ensuring that covid continues? I honestly don't know how you come to that conclusion. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.
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16 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

 

LV, Even if the benefit of a mask is small I will take it. The benefit of a mask isn't only protection to the wearer but also preventing people who are infected and show no symptoms from spreading the virus.

There is more to this virus than you or I know, for a start we are not in the Hospitals or ICU's to see the suffering and we know little know of the long term effects.

There is no doubt the vaccines work and for the people who have little health risks the benefit of the vaccines are that the vaccine has primed their immune system to kill the virus so they will have less chance to spread the virus and importantly the virus will have less chance to mutate into a potentially more harmful variant.....anywhere in the world.

I know you diss the epidemiological science but maybe you're unaware of the superb science that goes on at the molecular level which has uncovered how the virus binds to the surface protein on host cells etc etc, which helps to design drugs, understand mutations and their ramifications etc and the biology of the immune response to the virus and vaccines. This and similar work on Covid antibodies under pins the whole vaccine ball game.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2180-5

 

But what if the negative impacts of a mask outweigh the benefits - have you ever thought in that context? Why did you never wear a mask before? This asymptomatic crap needs nipping in the bud - you don't spread a virus with no symptoms, even the WHO admitted that asymptomatic infection is not a driver of pandemics (latest research suggests that 2-3% of infections are caused by asymptomatic spread). This is the trouble - people see themselves and others as vectors of disease when they are not even ill!

The vaccine doesn't 'kill' the virus, it prevents serious illness and death in the most vulnerable. It doesn't stop people getting the virus and the evidence suggests it does very little to reduce transmission. Additionally, if the vaccine works then why do others need to take it that don't need it? In no other history of viruses has a virus mutated into something more dangerous - why would this start now?

I don't diss the epidemiological science - I diss the government approved science that has nothing to do with epidemiology and more about psychology and behavioural nudging. There are some very prominent (and I mean world leading) epidemiologists who have called this crap out from the beginning, but people like Fauci, Vallance etc. have set out to besmirch their reputation and convinced the world that these people who have invested their life into understanding viruses don't know what they are talking about.

The arrogance of Whitty when South African experts pointed out that the Omicron variant was definitely milder, where he basically dismissed it, tells you everything you need to know about these people that the public are putting their trust in. They are more interest in the prestige of knighthoods and lining their wallet. If this thing goes away they become a nobody again.

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I'm going to give this thread a break again. It's been nice to see that more and more people are waking up to the nonsense, in light of all the overwhelming evidence.

But unfortunately, there is just no helping some people. They're too committed to the narrative, and are in too deep to admit they have been duped. I don't want to fall into the trap again of going round in circles, and trying to educate the obstinate.

People are still happy to live in fear, and to rely on the Government, and carry on obeying Boris Johnson (who can't even abide to his own rules and hasn't worried about COVID the whole time).

Apparently posting numerous peer reviewed science studies is now "ridiculing and abusive".

When we look back on this period, I'm happy I was sat on the right side of history, and supported those opposing forced medical procedures, removal of basic freedoms and denial of human liberty.

I'm still saddened by what is going on in Australia, New Zealand and Austria, and really feel for the people blighted by the extreme and excessive tyranny being imposed upon them. A virus with a 99%+ survival rate should not cause this amount of despotism and oppression towards it's citizens.

Now I'll get back to debating who should play up top on Saturday! 😊

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4 hours ago, valeparklife said:

I'm going to give this thread a break again. It's been nice to see that more and more people are waking up to the nonsense, in light of all the overwhelming evidence.

But unfortunately, there is just no helping some people. They're too committed to the narrative, and are in too deep to admit they have been duped. I don't want to fall into the trap again of going round in circles, and trying to educate the obstinate.

People are still happy to live in fear, and to rely on the Government, and carry on obeying Boris Johnson (who can't even abide to his own rules and hasn't worried about COVID the whole time).

Apparently posting numerous peer reviewed science studies is now "ridiculing and abusive".

When we look back on this period, I'm happy I was sat on the right side of history, and supported those opposing forced medical procedures, removal of basic freedoms and denial of human liberty.

I'm still saddened by what is going on in Australia, New Zealand and Austria, and really feel for the people blighted by the extreme and excessive tyranny being imposed upon them. A virus with a 99%+ survival rate should not cause this amount of despotism and oppression towards it's citizens.

Now I'll get back to debating who should play up top on Saturday! 😊

I feel your pain. I feel saddened that people are so naive and have just accepted this. I worry for when an actual dangerous pandemic comes along- what will be our reaction then? I feel sad for these people because they are so easily manipulated by propaganda. I'm angry at the 'experts' who are now backtracking after we said that they were wrong but nobody listened. I'm angry at the modellers for presenting worst case scenarios when they knew they wouldn't happen and then repeating it. New Zealand is just nuts, it's sadistic. I can't believe people are putting up with it still. 

I'm angry at governments for not questioning the data they were presented with and not including other viewpoints in their decision making. I'm angry that people like Whitty and Vallance have huge amounts of shares in the companies that they are pushing products for. I'm angry that my nan had to spend the last year of her life virtually alone, surrounded by strange carers in masks. I'm angry for people whose funerals were attended by 5 people, for people who lost their jobs and businesses, for people who didn't seek medical treatment that could have saved their life because they were too scared by the fear generated. I'm angry for children who have missed out on so much in their relatively short school life, trips, fairs, visitors, music, theatre trips etc. I'm angry that some children will think it's perfectly normal to stay away from others, perfectly normal to not be able to see people's faces. I'm angry for all those who didn't get the cancer treatment that they needed, or were missed altogether. I'm angry for those people who have killed themselves because they could see no alternative. I'm angry that many people died alone, gave birth alone, lived alone with no opportunity to meet a partner. I'm angry that we have wasted 2 years of a short life being limited on travel, experiencing new things, missing out on opportunities.

I'm angry because people don't see this. They don't see the inhumanity, they don't understand that life is about living, interacting, doing things that we enjoy. They're literally blinded by fear of something that poses a tiny risk to them. It should NEVER happen again.

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2 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Because it happens to be true!

Does it? Or is it just an opinion based on some very biased and poorly constructed research? That happened to magically appear in June 2020, in spite of previously all scientific and health people saying that masks don't work. In spite of all the scientific evidence to how this thing spreads, in spite of all the reports and journals that show that masks have limited benefit or even negative benefit -you still believe they have been implemented out of the government's genuine concern for its population? 

I'm constantly amaze by people's lack of critical thinking, their lack of questioning, their lack of looking around them and wondering where all the dead people are. Their lack of looking at other countries with strict mask mandates and wondering why they have cases skyrocketing. Their lack of looking at Scotland and Wales, who performed worse than England in the past few months, yet they had masks everywhere - can nobody see the correlation?

As an anecdotal story, someone my wife works with has been ultra careful, whole family wears masks wherever they go (and they hardly go anywhere), avoids people, doesn't talk to anyone unless masked.....and guess what, they now have Covid! As I heard someone say not so long ago "Virus is going to virus".

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11 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Does it? Or is it just an opinion based on some very biased and poorly constructed research? That happened to magically appear in June 2020, in spite of previously all scientific and health people saying that masks don't work. In spite of all the scientific evidence to how this thing spreads, in spite of all the reports and journals that show that masks have limited benefit or even negative benefit -you still believe they have been implemented out of the government's genuine concern for its population? 

I'm constantly amaze by people's lack of critical thinking, their lack of questioning, their lack of looking around them and wondering where all the dead people are. Their lack of looking at other countries with strict mask mandates and wondering why they have cases skyrocketing. Their lack of looking at Scotland and Wales, who performed worse than England in the past few months, yet they had masks everywhere - can nobody see the correlation?

As an anecdotal story, someone my wife works with has been ultra careful, whole family wears masks wherever they go (and they hardly go anywhere), avoids people, doesn't talk to anyone unless masked.....and guess what, they now have Covid! As I heard someone say not so long ago "Virus is going to virus".

I'm also constantly amazed by some people's lack of consideration for others.  Do you seriously think that shop assistants are delighted to have you breathing unmasked all over them?  Anecodotally, I also know of a couple of friends working in retail who, despite being fully vaccinated and themselves wearing masks, have now been infected on more than one occasion and both are as certain as they can be that these infections have been the result of working in an enclosed environment for days at a time, with some members of the public using their premises mask-free--one such example was a customer who was actually coughing and sneezing all over my friend as she processed his purchase--such consideration !

Anyway, each to his own.....I shall continue to wear a mask in shops, not especially as a defensive measure for me, but more as a consideration to other shoppers and especially shop workers who are exposed to many people for many hours every day.  The logic of your argument appears to be similar to some of the anti-vaxxers who seem to miss the point that their 'freedom' not to be vaccinated is someone else's potential infection.  Even allowing these stupid people the 'freedom of choice' the numbers of patients now in ICU are around 90% UNVACCINATED. I don't have any sympathy for them as it was their 'freedom of choice.'  However what does make me annoyed is that these idiots are taking up beds and NHS workers & facilities that could be utilised to treat people with illnesses that haven't been 'self-inflicted!'

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15 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Fake info = peer reviewed, science and medical studies?

Cranky info = scientists and medical professionals on the Joe Rogan podcast?

What a world we live in! 😂😂

Try Dr.John Campbell on YouTube vpl,who tends to state the facts.

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10 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

I'm also constantly amazed by some people's lack of consideration for others.  Do you seriously think that shop assistants are delighted to have you breathing unmasked all over them?  Anecodotally, I also know of a couple of friends working in retail who, despite being fully vaccinated and themselves wearing masks, have now been infected on more than one occasion and both are as certain as they can be that these infections have been the result of working in an enclosed environment for days at a time, with some members of the public using their premises mask-free--one such example was a customer who was actually coughing and sneezing all over my friend as she processed his purchase--such consideration !

Anyway, each to his own.....I shall continue to wear a mask in shops, not especially as a defensive measure for me, but more as a consideration to other shoppers and especially shop workers who are exposed to many people for many hours every day.  The logic of your argument appears to be similar to some of the anti-vaxxers who seem to miss the point that their 'freedom' not to be vaccinated is someone else's potential infection.  Even allowing these stupid people the 'freedom of choice' the numbers of patients now in ICU are around 90% UNVACCINATED. I don't have any sympathy for them as it was their 'freedom of choice.'  However what does make me annoyed is that these idiots are taking up beds and NHS workers & facilities that could be utilised to treat people with illnesses that haven't been 'self-inflicted!'

How can you just make assertions though?

 

Like I can just say that vaccinated people spread the virus especially people who are treble vaccinated and wear masks and vote for the lib dems. It's meaningless <ovf censored>.

 

There's a pattern of information being edited, created, manipulated, censored and it all leads in one direction. Part of that is this wild idea that my vaccination status has any impact on anyone but myself...it simply doesn't. 

Second of all that masks work despite them never being statistically proven to work until coincidentally....may-ish 2020 when after telling us that masks don't work, the worldwide Governments then said that masks doe work.

 

Lastly, as I've said before, I don't wear a mask for the benefit of everyone else. I'm being virtuous because I want to be and I'm just asserting that I am, therefore I am. 

 

I will also not be injecting anything else into my body whilst being coerced or pressured into doing so by lunatics and liars. I'm doing this for everyone else too. Because I'm selfless.

 

Just remember when all you selfish octo-vaxxed maskers are getting freed from the gulag, that it was me and people like me who saved you.

 

Clap on your doorstep for me next thursday at 20:00.

 

 

Edited by Regal Beagle
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23 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

But what if the negative impacts of a mask outweigh the benefits - have you ever thought in that context? Why did you never wear a mask before? This asymptomatic crap needs nipping in the bud - you don't spread a virus with no symptoms, even the WHO admitted that asymptomatic infection is not a driver of pandemics (latest research suggests that 2-3% of infections are caused by asymptomatic spread). This is the trouble - people see themselves and others as vectors of disease when they are not even ill!

Of course I've thought of that but on the evidence I've read I prefer to wear a mask, it's my choice. I never wore a mask before because the virus wasn't around.  Articles I've read say people can be infected and have no symptoms for up to 4 days and can spread the virus during this time, a good reason for all people to wear a mask.

23 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

The vaccine doesn't 'kill' the virus, it prevents serious illness and death in the most vulnerable. It doesn't stop people getting the virus and the evidence suggests it does very little to reduce transmission.

LV, I've lost count of the number of times I've made those points on this thread about vaccines, It's the immune system that kills viruses/pathogens using cells such as macrophages and Killer T-cells by processes called phagocytosis. The vaccines primes the immune system to react faster and be ready to kill faster than an unvaccinated immune system.

23 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Additionally, if the vaccine works then why do others need to take it that don't need it? In no other history of viruses has a virus mutated into something more dangerous - why would this start now?

I'm not a virologist but virus can only mutate when it's in a host so if a host is vaccinated that host's immune system can kill the virus quicker and stop it mutating. Hence everyone should take a vaccine.

The Corona virus is an RNA based virus and they mutate faster than DNA viruses like herpes and smallpox. There have been years when the common cold has been worse, the flu has been worse. This virus is only a couple of years old in terms of it's evolution yet I believe some of the latter mutants have been more "potent" in different ways, delta was more deadly and omicron spread faster but was less deadly .

23 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

The arrogance of Whitty when South African experts pointed out that the Omicron variant was definitely milder, where he basically dismissed it, tells you everything you need to know about these people that the public are putting their trust in. They are more interest in the prestige of knighthoods and lining their wallet. If this thing goes away they become a nobody again.

I posted about the South African variant when it first became known but from memory their conclusions were based on a small number of cases so people were right to be cautious.

 

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9 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

How can you just make assertions though?

 

Like I can just say that vaccinated people spread the virus especially people who are treble vaccinated and wear masks and vote for the lib dems. It's meaningless <ovf censored>.

 

There's a pattern of information being edited, created, manipulated, censored and it all leads in one direction. Part of that is this wild idea that my vaccination status has any impact on anyone but myself...it simply doesn't. 

Second of all that masks work despite them never being statistically proven to work until coincidentally....may-ish 2020 when after telling us that masks don't work, the worldwide Governments then said that masks doe work.

 

Lastly, as I've said before, I don't wear a mask for the benefit of everyone else. I'm being virtuous because I want to be and I'm just asserting that I am, therefore I am. 

 

I will also not be injecting anything else into my body whilst being coerced or pressured into doing so by lunatics and liars. I'm doing this for everyone else too. Because I'm selfless.

 

Just remember when all you selfish octo-vaxxed maskers are getting freed from the gulag, that it was me and people like me who saved you.

 

Clap on your doorstep for me next thursday at 20:00.

 

 

Your assertion that your vaccination status has no effect on others sadly, shows up your selfishness.  Everyones' vaccination status potentially can effect others. Don't take my word for it, ask the ICU consultant at the London hospital who was featured in a news feature by Clive Mirey on BBC this week.  He could barely contain his anger as he took Clive around his ward and pointed out that every single bed was occupied by someone who had chosen 'freedom' over vaccinations.  All these people were tying-up the consultant's time, his team and facilities that needn't have been tied-up! 

Your 'freedom' is a potential 'sentence' to others. It's obvious from your responses and rationale that you're not likely to be persuaded from your introspective and selfish approach, so not a lot of point in continuing this dialogue. 

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I'm also constantly amazed by some people's lack of consideration for others.  Do you seriously think that shop assistants are delighted to have you breathing unmasked all over them?  Anecodotally, I also know of a couple of friends working in retail who, despite being fully vaccinated and themselves wearing masks, have now been infected on more than one occasion and both are as certain as they can be that these infections have been the result of working in an enclosed environment for days at a time, with some members of the public using their premises mask-free--one such example was a customer who was actually coughing and sneezing all over my friend as she processed his purchase--such consideration !
Anyway, each to his own.....I shall continue to wear a mask in shops, not especially as a defensive measure for me, but more as a consideration to other shoppers and especially shop workers who are exposed to many people for many hours every day.  The logic of your argument appears to be similar to some of the anti-vaxxers who seem to miss the point that their 'freedom' not to be vaccinated is someone else's potential infection.  Even allowing these stupid people the 'freedom of choice' the numbers of patients now in ICU are around 90% UNVACCINATED. I don't have any sympathy for them as it was their 'freedom of choice.'  However what does make me annoyed is that these idiots are taking up beds and NHS workers & facilities that could be utilised to treat people with illnesses that haven't been 'self-inflicted!'


Your bit about unmasked people giving them covid is nonsense. Mental gymnastics again. I'm fine with you wearing a mask, if you truly believe they help then knock yourself out. You weren't wearing a mask three years ago though were you in a bad flu season to protect others? If you are not ill you are not spreading virus to anyone.

In terms of your bit about vaccines. I think I already said that those over the age of seventy should probably take it to prevent them being really ill... Even if it's a very small possibility. It's still their choice though. Do we castigate smokers that end up in hospital? Those who eat too much? Drink too much? Did we castigate those who didn't take the flu jab and ended up in hospital? No, we didn't. Do we castigate people who go into hospital because they were driving too fast or choose to participate in dangerous past times? No.

So your theory is that people shouldn't do anything that could make them end up in hospital. How far do you take it? Why aren't you annoyed at all these people who end up in hospital because of their choices? Again, you're trying to justify your virtuous stance and the fact that you have been sold Hook line and sinker on this.
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