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robf

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They are the rules. If he wants to play, follow the rules simple as that. That’s not forcing him to have the vaccine. I think they are 100% correct and I’m very glad they’ve not buckled for someone in his position. 

Covid itself can lead to heart problems and myocarditis… Vaccine can in very rare cases lead to mild conditions that clear. 136 in original study of 5 million had it after the vaccine so even smaller numbers than you quote for Covid deaths. 

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Firstly there was no test for flu/cold four years ago and as I’ve explained, if I’m not feeling well I keep away from others, it’s called being considerate. I’ve already stated that it’s no problem to wear a mask forever and if I feel I need to I will. Ppl in China have been wearing them for years because of air pollution so I don’t see anything wrong in wearing a mask, it’s hardly restrictive. It look like this thread is a thread that you’re very passionate about by the amount of posts that you’ve posted. 
So can I ask you, if you’re an anti vaxxer or a non believer in the virus.?


I agree, it's not the end of the world to wear a mask, I was just wondering how long you intended to keep wearing one, even outside, when you're not ill? I also wonder why you didn't wear one in previously very deadly flu seasons? You are right that it's common courtesy to stay away from people when you're ill but you are taking precautions when you are not ill which you didn't do previously. You'll now presumably wear a mask at all times when out with other people? You'll presumably take a test even when you're not ill forever?

I have already stated many times in this thread that I am not an anti vaxxer, I have had 2 jabs but I will not be getting a booster as firstly I don't think it's necessary against a much milder variant that isn't even making old people very sick, secondly I don't want to rely on vaccines as I want my immunity to stay healthy and not reliant on vaccination and finally I wonder where will it end? Next it will be the 4th jab and then the 5th etc. I'm not willing to commit to that.

In terms of do I think the virus is real. Absolutely, it's real and is potentially very dangerous to very old people or those who are clinically vulnerable. Do I think that the reaction to it from previously sane and rational people has been nothing short of hysterical? Yes. It was all started, worldwide, from hysterical modelling from Ferguson, who has an appalling track record. It has since been admitted that modellers only provide worst case scenarios to ministers. Governments were spooked worldwide by footage from Italy, which has since been proven to be library footage from previous years or made to look different from any other year in that part of Italy.

Since then we've been using a test far in excess of its worth to determine a problem that's not necessarily there. The inventor of the test said himself that it can find just about anything. If we had tested on this scale 4 years ago we would have found 100s of thousands of people carrying the flu virus and all of a sudden you think you have an issue. Stop the testing tomorrow and you would not know anything was going on. Hospital admissions are normal if not below for this time of year. There's actually less people on ventilators than some previous years. Deaths from respiratory disease are very low.

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Posted (edited)

I didn’t wear a mask, for the same reason that no one else did, we were not advised to wear a masks. Also depending on the individual they would have dealt with their flu/cold symptoms by getting medication from the chemist or if old enough by obtaining the flu vaccination. It was only last year they informed me that I could have the vaccination even though I’m 57. You seem to think that only the elderly will die from this virus, that’s not the case. I’m glad that you took the opportunity to get the two jabs. Which will mean that unless your of a certain age, have underline issues or work for the NHS you’ll have had two AstraZeneca jabs. My booster was Pfizer and now they’re saying that after a period of time the AZ won’t offer any protection.

I know that Israel have started their fourth vaccination programme, but I don’t see that will be happening in the UK. My thoughts on Omicron are that for those boostered it will be mild and those who haven’t bothered it could be deadly. At the best they’ll be very ill but survive. They'll be reliant on their white blood cells to identify the virus and then produce the antibodies to combat the virus. Natures way of vaccinating the human. Still a big gamble to contract it and then see how the cards fall. Also a  massive drain on NHS both financially and operationally who could be dealing with other patients and their life threatening illnesses, which probably aren’t any fault of their own. Don’t know how those who have not been vaccinated would feel if a member of their family got told they can’t have treatment for an illness and then dying because the NHS are overwhelmed and having to deal with ppl who couldn’t be bothered to get vaccinated. 

Edited by Playa Amodores

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I didn’t wear a mask, for the same reason that no one else did, we were not advised to wear a masks. Also depending on the individual they would have dealt with their flu/cold symptoms by getting medication from the chemist or if old enough by obtaining the flu vaccination. It was only last year they informed me that I could have the vaccination even though I’m 57. You seem to think that only the elderly will die from this virus, that’s not the case. I’m glad that you took the opportunity to get the two jabs. Which will mean that unless your of a certain age, have underline issues or work for the NHS you’ll have had two AstraZeneca jabs. My booster was Pfizer and now they’re saying that after a period of time the AZ won’t offer any protection.
I know that Israel have started their fourth vaccination programme, but I don’t see that will be happening in the UK. My thoughts on Omicron are that for those boostered it will be mild and those who haven’t bothered it could be deadly. At the best they’ll be very ill but survive. They'll be reliant on their white blood cells to identify the virus and then produce the antibodies to combat the virus. Natures way of vaccinating the human. Still a big gamble to contract it and then see how the cards fall. Also a  massive drain on NHS both financially and operationally who could be dealing with other patients and their life threatening illnesses, which probably aren’t any fault of their own. Don’t know how those who have not been vaccinated would feel if a member of their family got told they can’t have treatment for an illness and then dying because the NHS are overwhelmed and having to deal with ppl who couldn’t be bothered to get vaccinated. 


So you must ask yourself the question, why were you not instructed to wear a mask then but you are now? Just because somebody said you should? Yes, Covid is more transmissable than flu but even vaccinated people can still catch flu and it can still cause a significant amount of deaths in a season. Ask yourself why the advice changed on masks overnight. Why are you wearing one outdoors? It's absolutely pointless, transmission is virtually impossible outdoors.

I agree that people of all ages can die of the virus, just like all ages can die of flu, but the average age of death from this virus is 82, the vast majority of deaths are 80+, I.e. people who have always been susceptible to respiratory viruses. It's the insinuation that everyone is equally susceptible to this virus that is fundamentally wrong.

I had 2 Pfizer jabs for the record. I think the boosters are a good idea for those 70 plus, for those under that age there is really no need unless they wish to. It doesn't stop transmission as shown by the record number of people testing positive, there is even less likelihood of Omicron being deadly for those under 70 too. To me, if you are under 70, it's never been a big gamble to catch the virus....the vast majority will be absolutely fine. A very small risk? Yes, but not a big gamble.

Your analogy about unvaccinated people taking up beds is fair enough but do we say to people that choose to smoke that they are taking up another bed forsomeone more worthy? Or do we call out people who eat in excess selfish for taking up another bed?

Again, this isn't people 'can't be bothered '. This isn't even people in the vast majority who are anti vax. They just have legitimate concerns about the safety and necessity of a vaccine that utilises new technology and unknown side effects, no matter how small these are. We can't be absolutely sure yet as to how small the chances of adverse effects are. Wouldn't it be fair to people who have genuine concerns to wait a little to see some more long term outcomes?

The trouble is, people have been hoodwinked into thinking this is the next plague and it's very difficult to get people out of that mindset. They still massively over inflate the risk to themselves and others.

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Some context required here.

 

I just downloaded the latest total deaths data from ONS. Out of interest I quickly totaled the  deaths in England and Wales in the year 2021 (minus the last week of the year - data is missing, probably gets added next week)

65,000 people aged 59 or under have died.

7,243 had covid mentioned on the death certificate - which may be inflated if it was coincidence or a contributing but not the main cause of death.

The age brackets don't quite marry up but I am pretty sure more teenagers have been stabbed to death in London alone in 2021 (30), than have died of covid in England and Wales in the same year (43 but that includes 10/11/12 year olds).

You would literally save more lives if you forced all teenages to wear stab proof vests 24 hours a day, than you would by forcing them to take a vaccine.

 

For those aged 34 and under, of the roughly 10,000 total deaths in 2021, fewer than 450 had covid listed.

 

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Some context required here.
 
I just downloaded the latest total deaths data from ONS. Out of interest I quickly totaled the  deaths in England and Wales in the year 2021 (minus the last week of the year - data is missing, probably gets added next week)
65,000 people aged 59 or under have died.
7,243 had covid mentioned on the death certificate - which may be inflated if it was coincidence or a contributing but not the main cause of death.
The age brackets don't quite marry up but I am pretty sure more teenagers have been stabbed to death in London alone in 2021 (30), than have died of covid in England and Wales in the same year (43 but that includes 10/11/12 year olds).
You would literally save more lives if you forced all teenages to wear stab proof vests 24 hours a day, than you would by forcing them to take a vaccine.
 
For those aged 34 and under, of the roughly 10,000 total deaths in 2021, fewer than 450 had covid listed.
WWW.ONS.GOV.UK  
Don't give people real data Regal Beagle! It doesn't marry with their beliefs!

As we know, the vaccine does not prevent transmission (there is a thought that it may lower transmission for a month or two after being injected) . This is clear from the record amount of positive cases in spite of significant vaccination. The question therefore is: what is the clamour for everyone to get vaccinated if they are at tiny or virtually no risk? It doesn't make sense.
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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

Don't give people real data Regal Beagle! It doesn't marry with their beliefs!

As we know, the vaccine does not prevent transmission (there is a thought that it may lower transmission for a month or two after being injected) . This is clear from the record amount of positive cases in spite of significant vaccination. The question therefore is: what is the clamour for everyone to get vaccinated if they are at tiny or virtually no risk? It doesn't make sense.

It's evil. Genuinely.

 

I can't think of much worse than forcing children to take a trial vaccine which is very possibly more harmful to them than the thing you are vaccinating them against, on the hypothesis (because it's not proven) that by vaccinating them, they improve the health of others. Not only that, but no one can even say how many vaccinations over what time period they will need to be forced to take.

And I'm sorry to call it a trial vaccine, but if we're talking about potentially killing a few children because we think it will "probably" save some adults...lets at least give them the respect of being as accurate as possible with terminology.

 

I keep thinking I'll wake up and this was all a nightmare at some point. Genuinely thought as a society we had learned from the evils of the last century, clearly not.

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It's evil. Genuinely.
 
I can't think of much worse than forcing children to take a trial vaccine which is very possibly more harmful to them than the thing you are vaccinating them against, on the hypothesis (because it's not proven) that by vaccinating them, they improve the health of others. Not only that, but no one can even say how many vaccinations over what time period they will need to be forced to take.
And I'm sorry to call it a trial vaccine, but if we're talking about potentially killing a few children because we think it will "probably" save some adults...lets at least give them the respect of being as accurate as possible with terminology.
 
I keep thinking I'll wake up and this was all a nightmare at some point. Genuinely thought as a society we had learned from the evils of the last century, clearly not.
That's what propoganda brings. Listen to some of the language that is being used...Macron said that he wants to piss people off that haven't had the vaccine. Other leaders have started saying similar words. It is very reminiscent of some of the dark times of the 20th century. Yet people will call you a nutter until it's their child who has been sacrificed to save an octogenarian.

The JCVI said there was no net benefit for 12-16 year olds to have the vaccine but we did it anyway. Why?

It's like people have lost grip of reality. I'd love to see a decent argument but nobody can give it to me.
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The club would like to encourage everyone over the age of 11 who is attending games or functions at Vale Park to bring a face covering.

Supporters are asked to wear face coverings when moving through any indoor areas of the club (including concourses).

Thoughts?

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5 minutes ago, For Us All said:

The club would like to encourage everyone over the age of 11 who is attending games or functions at Vale Park to bring a face covering.

Supporters are asked to wear face coverings when moving through any indoor areas of the club (including concourses).

Thoughts?

Club own the ground, it's their rules. Seems a very minor ask. Same as going into a shop and being asked to wear a mask - you respect their wishes.

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7 minutes ago, For Us All said:

The club would like to encourage everyone over the age of 11 who is attending games or functions at Vale Park to bring a face covering.

Supporters are asked to wear face coverings when moving through any indoor areas of the club (including concourses).

Thoughts?

If that's the clubs suggestion then fine. 

Then after moving around the same 200 people can all sit in the Valiant suite maskless supping beer and chatting.  

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1 hour ago, darren1810 said:

If that's the clubs suggestion then fine. 

Then after moving around the same 200 people can all sit in the Valiant suite maskless supping beer and chatting.  

Government rules

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The club would like to encourage everyone over the age of 11 who is attending games or functions at Vale Park to bring a face covering.

Supporters are asked to wear face coverings when moving through any indoor areas of the club (including concourses).

Thoughts?

Nah
I'm sorry but I'm not willing to kowtow to this pathetic virtue signalling nonsense anymore. This thing has transformed into a cold and yet people are still wearing masks outdoors where it's virtually impossible to catch anything.

God help us if something actually dangerous came along.

What heartened me was that I went into the red lion before the game. It was packed and nobody gave a stuff about social distancing or the amount of people in there. We need to get on with our lives and not be guided by some hysterical people who would not understand risk if it hit them in the face.
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Professor John Ioannidis of Stanford University, perhaps the world's leading epidemiologist has recently updated his study of Infection Fatality Rate of Covid. This was based on 2020 figures so as not to cloud with the impact of vaccines. The figures also do not account for the milder Omicron variant, which would mean far lower percentages currently, certainly below those of flu. They also don't factor any underlying health issues which would reduce even further.

Additionally, this is the percentage of people who actually get infected, so in overall population the percentages will be far, far lower, in fact close to zero for many age groups. What have we still got any restrictions for? IFR-2201.jpg

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More narrative changes from left wing media as they begin to start considering the truth for once.

 

CNN are shockingly reporting that hospital numbers might be inflated by counting those who are being treated for non-covid ailments but have tested positive, the most embarrassing part was the head wobbles as they tried to claim they've held this view all along.

 

The good ship covid is taking on water. Fast.

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