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59 minutes ago, FriedRice said:

yes we need someone who wants to restrict voter rights,takes bribes from Russia,is anti public health care,is pro guns and is a racist

Is any of that true though?

 

Genuine question. This is all the common left wing lies that they throw at every GOP or Conservative politician and it's almost always completely made up.

 

 

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2 hours ago, WV said:

Why would we test 10m a day? You seem to have a habit of making up outrageous scenarios that will never happen then asking the what ifs. Try and be a bit more honest. You're more outlandish than the media. Whats the point in debate if you think I am gaslighting and fact checking websites (more than one of them) are not in fact good for facts. I will take your word over theirs will I? 

You know why I asked the question.

 

Because we all know you can't answer it honestly without it debunking your point about the daily case total.

 

I have a habit of making up outrageous scenarios that will never happen? Think you are confusing me with Ferguson there 🤣

 

I do love this post though. Can't asnwer it without damaging my logic and so I'll dishonestly pretend to misunderstand the point so I can avoid answering it.

 

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6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
7 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
Until it can be managed we need more medical capacity. 10 years of austerity is making it worse.

If there are going to be many more mild cases that may only require a short hospital stay then why were the Nightingale hospitals decommissioned? Surely they would be perfect as a place to keep Covid out of hospitals, release the pressure and free up the hospitals to become something other than the national Covid service?

You can have as many Nightingale hospitals as you like, there are not enough staff to run them, they were a PR stunt and an excuse to launder public cash to Tory donors.

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2 hours ago, WV said:

Why would we test 10m a day? You seem to have a habit of making up outrageous scenarios that will never happen then asking the what ifs. Try and be a bit more honest. You're more outlandish than the media. Whats the point in debate if you think I am gaslighting and fact checking websites (more than one of them) are not in fact good for facts. I will take your word over theirs will I? 

How about a real world example of how you are dishonestly holding up garbage stats presented to you by the media and Government.

 

It is a fact that the number of vaccinated people who die from Covid is higher than unvaccinated. That's an undeniable fact (ONS, PHE, pattern followed in most countries with high vaccination rates) and without any context or analysis I could quite easily argue...Lets stop vaccinating people then because it's obviously better to be unvaccinated.

 

It doesn't stand up to basic scrutiny. I think the number a couple of weeks ago was roughly 81% of adults are double vaccinated (might be slightly out, that's beside the point for this post). 

So obviously the pool of people who are vaccinated is significantly increased which accounts for the total number of deaths being higher in that group. You'd need to compare the deaths to the size of the pool they came from to get the rate of deaths, which would then show that it's better to be vaccinated than unvaccinated when it comes to the death stats. There's obviously further analysis you can do...age, health status, treatment received etc...again besides the point for this post.

 

So if I were to make the argument that we shouldn't vaccinate people because the number of vaccinated deaths is higher than the number of unvaccinated...It is based on a fact, and my logic is sound at first glance. Obviously if the vaccine was doing more harm than good we should stop it. But basic scrutiny tells us that my logic is actually very flawed and it would not be a truthful statement to make.

 

This is why your headline 80k-90k deaths stats, combined with what we know from what PCR tests actually tell us....is meaningless... without context.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, FriedRice said:

After Trump threw his hissi fit Desantis proposed changes to voters rights, he had to return campaign contributions following ties to a russian company with ties to the Trump Ukraine scandal,he voted to repeal the affordable care act and wont support the american healthcare act,he publically supports the gun lobby who i guess give him money ( no clue )and he is on record as opposing the support of the bahames after a hurricaine so yeah true stuff on the plus side pretty supportive of gays

So he's cutting down on voter fraud, he returned money from a russian source, he has just announced a big spending spree including public health initiatives, he supports the constitutional right to bear arms.

 

The Bahamas thing I'd not heard of, a quick google shows that Florida sent aid to the Bahamas, there's quotes from him discussing that, although he did warn them not to flee to florida which I think maybe what you refer too.

 

Nothing about racism in your post either, unless that's the bahamas thing, in which case, how do you know that is about race?

 

Another example of why you shouldn't trust the headlines alone.

 

 

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2 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:


Totally correct. The percentage of positive people hasn't risen since July.

 

I agree entirely with Regal Begal that facts can be presented in lots of different ways that can lead to different conclusions. Take this sentence above.

In July at the peak of the mini wave, the number of people testing positive per test was 11.7%. It is now 10.2%. So overall there are less testing positive per test than then. The above is a fact.

But, in September 6.8% of people were testing positive, so since then there has been a 44.4% increase in the percentage of people who have been tested who have gone on to get a positive test result. So the percentage of people testing positive has fallen and risen again since July. It hasn't been a constant as could be inferred from the above fact. (There has been a relatively steady rise since September.

Worth noting that between the 10th and 13th of December, the number of tests in the uk increased by 9%. The Number of cases increased by 55% (and the number of cases data is still incomplete suggesting that this increase may be slightly higher)

It can be inferred from this fact that the number of Covid cases is increasing, as this corrects for the increase in tests being done, and the cases ares currently increasing rapidly in a short period of time. 

The fact about test cycles is also correct, that after 30 cycles very small traces can be picked up - this may or may not be Covid - but this is also constant and hence the number of positive cases, relative to the number of tests would stay constant if Covid wasn't increasing in the community.

No-one knows if Omicron is going to impact the NHS heavily and cause a significant number of deaths - it is conjecture even considering the facts in hand. The guidance and rules given out by Civil Servants and Politicians is always going to be based on their view of the risk.

Is it a reasonable assumption given the above to say that there is a risk that Omicron could cause some serious issues for the NHS (in terms of capacity) and impact on the number of deaths if no mitigation measures are taken? We wont know a until another week or so has passed and the impact on hospitalisation's and deaths is seen. Are the other sacrifices worth mitigating this risk?

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Just to put some info and perspective  into the comments about the PCR test for Sars-Cov-2 test and the PCR reaction.

The PCR method/Reaction is a technique invented by Kary Mullis in the 1980's and it has totally revolutionized biology. PCR stands for Polymerase Chain Reaction and the technique is used to copy very, very small amounts of DNA using an enzyme called Polymerase to make millions of copies of that particular DNA.

The test used to detect SARS-Covid-2 uses the PCR reaction but it also uses many other steps.

SARS-Covid-2 is an RNA virus and it is the virus's RNA that is converted into DNA and this DNA is then amplified by the PCR reaction to produce enough DNA to be tested and give a positive or negative result..

The RNA is converted into the DNA by a reaction called Reverse Transcriptase, another technique which has revolutionized biology, the guts of the test are called an RT-PCR reaction.. There are also other steps like taking the sample, denaturization of the sample et, etc.

So the actual test is a series of steps all which can produce errors and hence inaccurate data so the test isn't 100% accurate.

It is considered by the experts who designed the test (I'm no expert) that positive results are definite but there are false negatives and false positives. The PCR test is considered more accurate than the Antigen test.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/21462-covid-19-and-pcr-testing

 

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6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
6 hours ago, ginge said:
Very sensible thing to do. It's called common sense. I will be doing the same before heading to the pub with friends. 

Wow. Where does this end for you?

Where does what end? 

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37 minutes ago, eh up nah said:

I'm out tonight with a guy who's work partner was a girl aged 29.  

Had a little boy aged 9.

She had cancer.

Her treatment got stopped last winter as, obviously this virus with a 98% recovery was having its second go.

It took priority of course, as it should, being the next black death.

She died, despite having a highly positive outlook prior to this.

Still, WV, Fosse, Tommytunstall, they're ok with that. We should be stopping everything for it.

Covid is the only game.

I hope you're happy guys.

You seem fine with it, so yeah, you probably are.

 

 

Not true at all, my gripe is with the underfunding of the NHS with 11 years of austerity leaving the system under staffed and  under equipped to deal with a pandemic not planned for. That is the reason for the cancellation of essential operations and treatments. Reducing the load on the NHS with injections and spacing prevents an even larger strain  on the NHS, which my daughter is dependant on as well as the millions waiting. 

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43 minutes ago, eh up nah said:

I'm out tonight with a guy who's work partner was a girl aged 29.  

Had a little boy aged 9.

She had cancer.

Her treatment got stopped last winter as, obviously this virus with a 98% recovery was having its second go.

It took priority of course, as it should, being the next black death.

She died, despite having a highly positive outlook prior to this.

Still, WV, Fosse, Tommytunstall, they're ok with that. We should be stopping everything for it.

Covid is the only game.

I hope you're happy guys.

You seem fine with it, so yeah, you probably are.

 

 

What a silly post. Of course we are not ok with that, it is entirely disrespectful to the 3 of us to say that. I am extremely sorry for her death, as I am for the thousands who have died with COVID. We have a balance where we need to treat everybody, but that is easier said than done.

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