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2 hours ago, boslemportvale91 said:

He's like that mad family member on Facebook that shares all those conspiracy videos and quotes from fake news sites 

To be honest there's an element of my side of the argument that I find unsavoury and quite extreme right wing.  I dislike all the talk of a 'great reset' and how the vaccine is 'killing people ' or it's Bill Gates defining a new world order.  It negates and dilutes the intelligent sceptical argument and tars anyone opposed to all this with the same brush. 

Unfortunately, apart from a few MPs, virtually every sceptical public figure, scientist or politician has been deplatformed, silenced, rubbished or downright lied about.  There's no clear spokesperson as they're not allowed to voice a sceptical view. Hence there are these off shoots who come up with extreme conspiracy theories.

I remain convinced that one day the ultimate truth will out and a lot of people will feel shame for not critically thinking about the situation more.  It has highlighted to me how unthinking and subservient people are and how easy it is to manipulate them.  Even very intelligent people. 

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Surely the biggest peace time challenge the country has had, but with an incompetent PM.  The people have to take Government orders on trust in times of crisis, especially with a subservient media. Based on todays shopping they in the main still do.  What happens over Xmas may change things.

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59 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

You still haven't answered my point.  You made the assertion that in Europe they have been wearing masks through the last few months so therefore they must work.  However Europe is in a far worse situation than us. Equally our near neighbours have also fared worse than us. So again, please explain to me how masks are making a difference?  I'd love to see you square this circle. 

It's clearly theatre to show that they are doing 'something'. Hence they're not making them mandatory everywhere. If you can't see that then more the fool you. 

My earlier response to you was concerning Spain and Portugal, both countries I have visited recently, both countries still insist on mask wearing, both countries have done better than UK with recent cases. And both countries felt very safe.

If the elected Government of the day, give health advice out, I generally comply. There is plenty of medical advice out there that recommend and research wearing masks, rightly or wrongly that is my view. I do not intend to debate it with you, your views are fashioned by some media sites, and they are obviously not medical led.

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1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

My earlier response to you was concerning Spain and Portugal, both countries I have visited recently, both countries still insist on mask wearing, both countries have done better than UK with recent cases. And both countries felt very safe.

If the elected Government of the day, give health advice out, I generally comply. There is plenty of medical advice out there that recommend and research wearing masks, rightly or wrongly that is my view. I do not intend to debate it with you, your views are fashioned by some media sites, and they are obviously not medical led.

And people accuse me of being selective with data! Most of Europe has mask mandates including our next door neighbours and most are in a far worse situation than here. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that as with lockdown, there is no correlation between masks and a positive outcome. 

My views are fashioned by some well established medical journals and practitioners including the CDC.  Please see my earlier link, these aren't studies I've picked up from Viz. 

In fact, until June of last year virtually all medical establishments deemed masks to be useless including Jenny Harries, deputy CMO, who said they were likely to increase exposure to the virus because you were likely breathing it back in. 

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22 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

WOne thing that is troubling me about the mask thing.  If they're effective:

1) Why has Scotland, Wales and much of Europe had a worse time than us over the last 5 months? 

2) Why, if they work, are we not instructed to wear them at all times when out of the house? 

3) Why do people such as the Prime Minister, the Royals etc. Not wear them consistently?  Surely they will know the ins and outs of this virus?  If they truly believed they made a difference, wouldn't they be wearing them at all times? Without fail? 

4) Why are they only mandated in shops and public transport?  What about football stadiums? Why not pubs and restaurants?  Does the virus not work in these places? 

5) why did Boris Johnson have a sit down meal yesterday with hundreds of people in close proximity, all without masks?

If you can't see it's all theatre I feel sorry for you. 

1) Scotland and Wales have a lower death rate and infection rate as does the rest of Europe. 

2) this is a question for the government. This order does not change the effectiveness of masks

3)same as above 

4) same as above 

5) same as above 

Nothing you have asked leads to directly questioning the effectiveness of mask wearing. I thought you were all for scientific study not just putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 18. 

Where is your cdc link? 

 

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15 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

You still haven't answered my point.  You made the assertion that in Europe they have been wearing masks through the last few months so therefore they must work.  However Europe is in a far worse situation than us. Equally our near neighbours have also fared worse than us. So again, please explain to me how masks are making a difference?  I'd love to see you square this circle. 

It's clearly theatre to show that they are doing 'something'. Hence they're not making them mandatory everywhere. If you can't see that then more the fool you. 

None of Europe has higher daily infections or deaths so not sure where you have plucked they are doing much worse than us from. 

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33 minutes ago, WV said:

1) Scotland and Wales have a lower death rate and infection rate as does the rest of Europe. 

2) this is a question for the government. This order does not change the effectiveness of masks

3)same as above 

4) same as above 

5) same as above 

Nothing you have asked leads to directly questioning the effectiveness of mask wearing. I thought you were all for scientific study not just putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 18. 

Where is your cdc link? 

 

We've talked about cases before and their irrelevance but even then our case rate based on population is nowhere near that in the vast majority of Europe. Deaths I think we are way down the list. You're also being disingenuous with the data.  Look at deaths and cases per 100,000 rather than as a population whole. 

Admittedly, Scotland's picture is improving currently but that's probably because they hit their peak of infections before us, you know when masks were in full flow? 

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Youre being far too matter of fact for a lot of probably. 

How does your selection process work? Do you just randomly choose which figures you believe and which are a conspiracy? Is there any logic to it? Where is the cdc link that says masks dont work? 

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6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

We've talked about cases before and their irrelevance but even then our case rate based on population is nowhere near that in the vast majority of Europe. Deaths I think we are way down the list. You're also being disingenuous with the data.  Look at deaths and cases per 100,000 rather than as a population whole. 

Admittedly, Scotland's picture is improving currently but that's probably because they hit their peak of infections before us, you know when masks were in full flow? 

CDC link for masks?

More probablys 

 

 

What the data tells us is that you cannot decide by country if masks made a difference or not. There are far too many other factors at play. How many people were compliant with mask rules? What percentage of people were working from home? Age of population?  You won't consider any other data as it doesn't suit your rigid point of view.  

 

Anyway, you need yours on now. If it isn't too much of a hardship for you to put some cloth on your face for 5 minutes in the shop.

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39 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Boris and his dodgy crew 

Get farage in he is the only bloke out there who would sort this country out 

I am having a bad day but this made me smile, thanks! 

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38 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Boris and his dodgy crew 

Get farage in he is the only bloke out there who would sort this country out 

He has done sterling work with immigration, the fishing deal etc.  And all the other wins with Brexit. Think he has got a job now gardening for his mate Trump

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10 minutes ago, FriedRice said:

come on guys give Nige a chance its not like he is homophobic or is a climate change denier or wants to legalise handguns or spoke at far right rallies or is on a FBI person of interest list in the russian election or said that the lifeboat service was a taxi service for immigrants oh wait sorry he did do all those things

Wow 😂

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