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2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

It is not an experimental vaccine. It was extensively tested. 
 

Don’t agree. What we should have done is ignored the virus completely and let life go on as normal and everyone’s loved ones pass away. Heaven forbid we actually as a country come together and try to keep people safe. At the start of the pandemic deaths were occurring at a scary rate. Just imagine the uproar if we could just continue as normal. Do you really think people would live as normal amidst a pandemic? Survival rate wouldnt have been that if no action was taken. 

Nobody is forced to have a vaccine…. Nobody lost their freedom either. You had to stay at home with your own family. Not in prison. I understand lockdown was tough for people but taking away their freedom is a load of rubbish. 

The vaccines are still in the trial phase as I've mentioned before.

Here are the links again with the starts and end dates of the trials:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04848584

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04796896

I'm still finding it absolutely bizarre that even when presented with facts, people still choose not to believe.

It's like a crazed cult.

The media have absolutely brainwashed people that don't have the capacity to be objective and ask questions.

Again, I've posted this many times before, look at what constitutes a COVID "death" and ask yourself a very simple question - is dying of COVID the same as dying with COVID? These numbers are clearly massively overstated.

Do you think it's acceptable to declare a cause of death as "probable"? This is literally on the WHO website as what they do with COVID as I've posted before.

The survival rate over 2020 (before the vaccine or natural immunity) was 99.8731% - this is with overstated death data and understated case data (a high proportion of people will have had COVID but not declared it, or not even realised it was COVID).

Look at how the Government behaved during all of this - do you not think that was odd?

Boris Johnson preaching about isolating if you get a track and trace ping, yet when it happened to him he claimed he didn't have to! And Matt Hancock, the Heath Secretary, telling people to socially distance and not mix households, yet all of the time he was having an affair with his secretary! Is this normal to you? Does this not raise any questions at all?

"Do as I say, not as I do".

Literally everything you've posted on that post is false.

"Nobody is forced to have a vaccine" - the US are literally firing nurses (a good time to do this during a pandemic don't you think?)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/hundreds-hospital-staffers-fired-suspended-refusing-covid-19/story?id=80303408

"Nobody lost their freedom" - Canberra had ONE case and locked 460,000 in their homes

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-08-12/australia-capital-canberra-lockdown-single-coronavirus-infection

Yet open-minded people like myself that ask simple questions that can't be answered are the odd ones out here? 😂😂

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2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I wish those arguing this propaganda would drop it. It’s got nothing to do with that. Maybe people have lost people close to them? Maybe that’s why people are worried? Not everything is a bloody conspiracy. And it’s certainly not a fact!!!!

Last I checked you can’t catch liver cancer of someone else? 

For the hundredth time. Everyone knows that is more deadly. Obviously. But it Dosent pass from person to person as a virus does. Hence why lockdowns were necessarily and without them deaths would have been significantly higher. I don’t understand the debate there? There was an article last year that said 3.1 million lives across Europe were saved because of lockdowns. (3.2 million deaths before the 4th May was predicted) 

You can’t just sit back and wait for something bad to happen, action had to be taken and it was. I lost a <ovf censored> load of money during the lockdowns due to wedding cancellations but I think they were the right cause of action to take. 

Why should we drop it? Why shouldn't you drop it? Is this not what a forum is for?

Why can't anyone ever answer any of my numerous questions?

If someone firmly believes something, then they are able to disprove any counter arguments easily.

If someone told me the Earth was flat, I'd be able to show them pictures of the planet from space.

"Last I checked you can’t catch liver cancer of someone else?"

Again, why are you more scared about the spread, than you are about the outcome?

Would you prefer to catch a contagious cold, or have a terminal brain tumour? I know which would scare me more.

I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, and all I'm trying to do is show people that everything isn't what it seems. There are lots of odd events over the course of this pandemic which are hidden in plain sight.

Yet it seems that rather than just saying "I didn't realise that, thanks for pointing it out" and admitting there were some holes in your argument, people would prefer to carry on arguing regardless than admit this.

I might just get back to discussing Vale!

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58 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

The vaccines are still in the trial phase as I've mentioned before.

Here are the links again with the starts and end dates of the trials:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04848584

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04796896

I'm still finding it absolutely bizarre that even when presented with facts, people still choose not to believe.

It's like a crazed cult

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idUSL1N2M70MW

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Why should we drop it? Why shouldn't you drop it? Is this not what a forum is for?
Why can't anyone ever answer any of my numerous questions?
If someone firmly believes something, then they are able to disprove any counter arguments easily.
If someone told me the Earth was flat, I'd be able to show them pictures of the planet from space.
"Last I checked you can’t catch liver cancer of someone else?"
Again, why are you more scared about the spread, than you are about the outcome?
Would you prefer to catch a contagious cold, or have a terminal brain tumour? I know which would scare me more.
I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, and all I'm trying to do is show people that everything isn't what it seems. There are lots of odd events over the course of this pandemic which are hidden in plain sight.
Yet it seems that rather than just saying "I didn't realise that, thanks for pointing it out" and admitting there were some holes in your argument, people would prefer to carry on arguing regardless than admit this.
I might just get back to discussing Vale!
I think the simple answer to your question is that they only have an emotive argument. It's the old 'but people have died and been really poorly ' argument. There's also lots of 'it's common sense ' or 'you'd have to be stupid ' arguments which are never backed up with facts. At least Andyregs backed up his views with some reasonable facts.

Even if you show that hundreds of thousands of old people die every year, that every year from 2000 to 2008 had equivalent deaths to 2020, that 99.87% of people do not die and the vast majority are not even ill, that those in authority are openly taking the piss in plain sight by flouting the rules they set (see the g7 summit to see how serious these people really took it) . That hospitals were choreographicing tiktok videos whilst supposedly overwhelmed, whilst mass emergency hospitals were built and never used, whilst several different funeral directors tell me there was no out of ordinary deaths, whilst flu has disappeared and deaths from heart disease fell massively also, where 90% of fatalities had at least 1 major underlying health condition. But apart from that, there's nothing dodgy!

My take is that governments panicked, made huge financial and political decisions with very little proof that they would work or were even needed and they're now so far down the rabbit hole that to admit they were wrong would see them dragged in front of the courts or worse. The same applies to the people who have invested in the masks, gunk, clapping the NHS, staying safe, bread making, zoom loving folk. They've invested so much into it, that to be told it might not be what it seems is akin to going against their religion.

As you say, it's like a cult and no amount of reasoned argument will persuade otherwise.
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If the scientists had not come up with worst case scenarios nothing would have got done, something did get done, so the worse cases did not happen.  I am not excusing all the excesses on Test and Trace etc.
I agree with your last statement but if we always planned for the worst case scenario for everything, we would never leave the house. As I said, similar things were being said about bird flu, predictions of 500,000 deaths. But we didn't react like we have this time. The question is why?
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17 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
23 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
If the scientists had not come up with worst case scenarios nothing would have got done, something did get done, so the worse cases did not happen.  I am not excusing all the excesses on Test and Trace etc.

I agree with your last statement but if we always planned for the worst case scenario for everything, we would never leave the house. As I said, similar things were being said about bird flu, predictions of 500,000 deaths. But we didn't react like we have this time. The question is why?

We may well be heading for that. Today 143 deaths, and 39k plus cases. That a lot of cases when the denial twins on here say there is nothing to worry about. Well LV when do you worry we are now over 10 times more cases than any other European country and rising . We do get the message you are sending out LV, but we totally disagree, this is no little chill, it’s getting serious.

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We may well be heading for that. Today 143 deaths, and 39k plus cases. That a lot of cases when the denial twins on here say there is nothing to worry about. Well LV when do you worry we are now over 10 times more cases than any other European country and rising . We do get the message you are sending out LV, but we totally disagree, this is no little chill, it’s getting serious.
Do I really need to talk you through the cases misnomer again?
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4 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
4 hours ago, tommytunstall said:
We may well be heading for that. Today 143 deaths, and 39k plus cases. That a lot of cases when the denial twins on here say there is nothing to worry about. Well LV when do you worry we are now over 10 times more cases than any other European country and rising . We do get the message you are sending out LV, but we totally disagree, this is no little chill, it’s getting serious.

Do I really need to talk you through the cases misnomer again?

No don't, just shut up and give it a rest.........

Edited by blackdog
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55 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:
We may well be heading for that. Today 143 deaths, and 39k plus cases. That a lot of cases when the denial twins on here say there is nothing to worry about. Well LV when do you worry we are now over 10 times more cases than any other European country and rising . We do get the message you are sending out LV, but we totally disagree, this is no little chill, it’s getting serious.

Do I really need to talk you through the cases misnomer again?

Almost 40k deaths and you still spin the same rhetoric. You should be ashamed 

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17 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Almost 40k deaths and you still spin the same rhetoric. You should be ashamed 

140k deaths. He has no shame, just a broken record that is alienating people on here and no doubt people in his own life. All those thousands of friends he knows and none of them ever caught covid. That is the reality, the guy claimed to have 1000 contacts and had spoken to them all about their covid experiences. Basically making up stuff to back up a broken argument. 

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140k deaths. He has no shame, just a broken record that is alienating people on here and no doubt people in his own life. All those thousands of friends he knows and none of them ever caught covid. That is the reality, the guy claimed to have 1000 contacts and had spoken to them all about their covid experiences. Basically making up stuff to back up a broken argument. 
Not quite. I said I only know around a dozen people that have tested positive. Why would I make that up?

Why is my argument broken? I haven't seen any decent comeback yet apart from the emotional argument. It's always the same.
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Should be cases not deaths sorry
I'll say it again. Cases mean nothing. We test far in excess of any other country, 1 million a day. The vast majority of cases aren't illnesses, they aren't people in hospital, they aren't people dying. They are people that have tested positive for a virus using an unreliable test that they had no idea they had! Many of them are in hospital and they are I there for something else!We're always going to have cases if we test at this capacity, particularly with a PCR test that can find anything.

146 people supposedly died today (but of course they didn't all die today, it's over several days and weeks, another sleight of hand). 1500 people died of other things. And of course, out of that 146, how many actually died of Covid? How many tested positive for Covid coincidentally? How many tested positive for Covid falsely? How many people ordinarily go into hospital and die of respiratory disease at this time of year? Nobody ever answers these vital questions.

I admire your persistence TT but you're still pursuing this 'cases' argument constantly and it's been explained to you several times.
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9 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
4 hours ago, blackdog said:
No don't, just shut up and give it a rest.........

Another one who can't take a debate...

No intention of debating with a melt like you, show some respect for those  of us who are suffering at the moment with covid and for those who have lost someone........Like I said give it a rest.

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No intention of debating with a melt like you, show some respect for those  of us who are suffering at the moment with covid and for those who have lost someone........Like I said give it a rest.
I have great sympathy for anyone who has lost someone to any illness or for any reason. Or for people who have been ill. Unfortunately that is the nature of life.

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7 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
24 minutes ago, blackdog said:
No intention of debating with a melt like you, show some respect for those  of us who are suffering at the moment with covid and for those who have lost someone........Like I said give it a rest.

I have great sympathy for anyone who has lost someone to any illness or for any reason. Or for people who have been ill. Unfortunately that is the nature of life.

Blackdog don’t see any sense in arguing with this guy any further, his stupid insensitive comments just go on and on, he has no respect for anyone suffering, as long as he gets his anti comments across.

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9 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

 And of course, out of that 146, how many actually died of Covid? How many tested positive for Covid coincidentally? How many tested positive for Covid falsely? How many people ordinarily go into hospital and die of respiratory disease at this time of year? Nobody ever answers these vital questions.

 

Why don't you answer the vital questions you pose? If you dont know the answers then why do you act so confident that you're right. If you do know them lets have the sources to back it up. Or is it youre just a conspiracy crank who needs to be heard? I look forward to your answers to the vital questions 

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