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I think if you have a brain it’s clear that without lockdowns the NHS would have crumbled and cases would have risen. I don’t know how thats even an argument. The modelling is always dodgy when it’s not fitting your argument isn’t? 
Ive agreed with you numerous times about mental health issues throughout covid. 
 
Of course people care about flu and pneumonia. They have been around for a while. Covid hasn’t. That’s the difference. 
No, the difference is that Covid has had a £300 million marketing budget! It should have an agent.

Why is it clear that the NHS would have crumbled? It was never even close, in spite of getting rid of a huge percentage of beds and staff continuously isolating. In a real pandemic, staff wouldn't have time to coordinate dance moves for tiktok.

How can you back that statement up? The NHS struggles at many times of the year, particularly in winter, where scenes have been much worse than this. The Nightingale hospitals not used barely at all. I know you'll say that it's because of the lockdown but evidence suggests that they have very little correlation with how a country or place fares.

Check out the modelling that has been done and then check out the actual real life results.

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How many more times!!! Yes I do listen to the scientists, because they know a damn site more than you 
You listen to 'some' scientists that agree with the mainstream view and by proxy your view.

They do know a lot more than me but it doesn't mean they're right. Many people disagree with them and put excellent arguments forward but because the government has blown loads of money and ruined a lot of lives, they are never going to about face and listen to other views.

I'm dreading the review. It will all be about whether lockdown was early enough, hard enough, long enough rather than whether it was warranted in the first place.

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8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
12 hours ago, ginge said:
Out of interest what other laws/rules (not covid related) should we not obey that the government tell us to do? 

Laws should be obeyed if they make sense and serve a definitive purpose. Much of the witchcraft and wizardry of the last 18 months hasn't.

If laws made sense the unemployment rate would rocket and court waiting times would plummet. 

If the police can't make sense of the laws they are trained to enforce what chance has Joe public?

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19 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

Because I know people that have died / been ill. I also know people (sister) who have had it and been fine. I think it’s just an appreciation that it does affect people. Something that LV Dosent realise / Dosent care about.

Lockdowns were necessarily, without those numbers would be worse. 

Maybe in the future whenever another virus appears, we should all just ignore and watch the chaos and deaths unfold? 

But I've never said it doesn't affect people?

What I've said is that taking away people's freedom and forcing experimental vaccines onto the public for a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate doesn't add up?

There are way too many strange occurrences over the course of this pandemic where common sense would indicate something is awry.

 

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19 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Why don't we let people drink and drive to excess? They would die one day anyway. Same with anyone they may run over.

Incredibly poor argument.

I didn't realise there were lockdowns and experimental vaccines to prevent drinking and driving?

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Why are people that terrified of a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate, that they will literally follow every Government guidance thrown at them without question, and vehemently debate with anyone that dares to even ask questions?

Yet if you look at something like liver cancer, there has been Government advice around for years advising people to lose weight, stop drinking and stop smoking.

Liver cancer has a survival rate of just 20%. Yet people ignore this advice and continue being obese, drinking alcohol and smoking. No one listened to that advice because it wasn't on the news 24/7.

The media has done an unbelievable job of brainwashing the public.

The cult of Coronavirus.

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Why are people that terrified of a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate, that they will literally follow every Government guidance thrown at them without question, and vehemently debate with anyone that dares to even ask questions?
Yet if you look at something like liver cancer, there has been Government advice around for years advising people to lose weight, stop drinking and stop smoking.
Liver cancer has a survival rate of just 20%. Yet people ignore this advice and continue being obese, drinking alcohol and smoking. No one listened to that advice because it wasn't on the news 24/7.
The media has done an unbelievable job of brainwashing the public.
The cult of Coronavirus.
Nowhere near the amount of people smoke nowadays, youngsters drink less nowadays, poor diets as a result of poverty don't help.

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37 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
2 hours ago, valeparklife said:
Incredibly poor argument.
I didn't realise there were lockdowns and experimental vaccines to prevent drinking and driving?

There were not, which destroys your argument.

How has that destroyed my argument? You've made yourself look a bit silly here!

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38 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
1 hour ago, valeparklife said:
Why are people that terrified of a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate, that they will literally follow every Government guidance thrown at them without question, and vehemently debate with anyone that dares to even ask questions?
Yet if you look at something like liver cancer, there has been Government advice around for years advising people to lose weight, stop drinking and stop smoking.
Liver cancer has a survival rate of just 20%. Yet people ignore this advice and continue being obese, drinking alcohol and smoking. No one listened to that advice because it wasn't on the news 24/7.
The media has done an unbelievable job of brainwashing the public.
The cult of Coronavirus.

Nowhere near the amount of people smoke nowadays, youngsters drink less nowadays, poor diets as a result of poverty don't help.

image.thumb.png.aa0bff2e2731ac3bfd36232208d00cde.png

People are still smoking and the number is growing yearly.

Alcohol consumption actually increased by 70% from 1990 to 2017 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)32744-2/fulltext

The entire country isn't in extreme poverty. Vegetables hardly cost the earth, so this is a poor excuse. These are all decisions people choose to make.

The fact of the matter is that due to the propaganda on TV, people are terrified of a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate and passionately follow all Government guidelines. Yet these same people are still obese, drink and smoke despite similar Government guidelines to avoid liver cancer with a 20% survival rate.

Does this make sense to you? To be terrified of a 99.9%+ survival rate and not bothered about one with a 20% survival rate? Why is this?

Do you understand the reason for the difference?

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image.thumb.png.aa0bff2e2731ac3bfd36232208d00cde.png
People are still smoking and the number is growing yearly.
Alcohol consumption actually increased by 70% from 1990 to 2017 
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)32744-2/fulltext
The entire country isn't in extreme poverty. Vegetables hardly cost the earth, so this is a poor excuse. These are all decisions people choose to make.
The fact of the matter is that due to the propaganda on TV, people are terrified of a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate and passionately follow all Government guidelines. Yet these same people are still obese, drink and smoke despite similar Government guidelines to avoid liver cancer with a 20% survival rate.
Does this make sense to you? To be terrified of a 99.9%+ survival rate and not bothered about one with a 20% survival rate? Why is this?
Do you understand the reason for the difference?
Your analysis of smoking makes we wonder about your view of the remainder.

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Whenever a government uses force it's almost a guarantee something is seriously wrong, with the government.

18 months ago health service workers were lauded as hero's all over the world, people stood outside clapping their dedication. Fast forward and the same people are being told if they don't have the jab they are no longer wanted and will lose their job.

People should be given accurate relevant information and allowed to make decisions for themselves. If they choose to smoke, drink to excess or eat themselves into obesity they should be allowed to do so. By all means try to dissuade them but don't use force, like arresting people with exemptions for not wearing a mask.

In 1919 the USA introduced measures for the common good called the volstead act. It lasted for approximately 13 years before being repealed. It was undertaken to reduce crime and corruption, solve social problems, reduce the tax burden created by prisons and poorhouses, and improve health and hygiene in America. Commonly known as prohibition.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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8 hours ago, valeparklife said:

But I've never said it doesn't affect people?

What I've said is that taking away people's freedom and forcing experimental vaccines onto the public for a virus with a 99.9%+ survival rate doesn't add up?

There are way too many strange occurrences over the course of this pandemic where common sense would indicate something is awry.

 

It is not an experimental vaccine. It was extensively tested. 
 

Don’t agree. What we should have done is ignored the virus completely and let life go on as normal and everyone’s loved ones pass away. Heaven forbid we actually as a country come together and try to keep people safe. At the start of the pandemic deaths were occurring at a scary rate. Just imagine the uproar if we could just continue as normal. Do you really think people would live as normal amidst a pandemic? Survival rate wouldnt have been that if no action was taken. 

Nobody is forced to have a vaccine…. Nobody lost their freedom either. You had to stay at home with your own family. Not in prison. I understand lockdown was tough for people but taking away their freedom is a load of rubbish. 

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I wish those arguing this propaganda would drop it. It’s got nothing to do with that. Maybe people have lost people close to them? Maybe that’s why people are worried? Not everything is a bloody conspiracy. And it’s certainly not a fact!!!!

Last I checked you can’t catch liver cancer of someone else? 

For the hundredth time. Everyone knows that is more deadly. Obviously. But it Dosent pass from person to person as a virus does. Hence why lockdowns were necessarily and without them deaths would have been significantly higher. I don’t understand the debate there? There was an article last year that said 3.1 million lives across Europe were saved because of lockdowns. (3.2 million deaths before the 4th May was predicted) 

You can’t just sit back and wait for something bad to happen, action had to be taken and it was. I lost a <ovf censored> load of money during the lockdowns due to wedding cancellations but I think they were the right cause of action to take. 

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I wish those arguing this propaganda would drop it. It’s got nothing to do with that. Maybe people have lost people close to them? Maybe that’s why people are worried? Not everything is a bloody conspiracy. And it’s certainly not a fact!!!!
Last I checked you can’t catch liver cancer of someone else? 
For the hundredth time. Everyone knows that is more deadly. Obviously. But it Dosent pass from person to person as a virus does. Hence why lockdowns were necessarily and without them deaths would have been significantly higher. I don’t understand the debate there? There was an article last year that said 3.1 million lives across Europe were saved because of lockdowns. (3.2 million deaths before the 4th May was predicted) 
You can’t just sit back and wait for something bad to happen, action had to be taken and it was. I lost a load of money during the lockdowns due to wedding cancellations but I think they were the right cause of action to take. 
See bird flu as an example of predicting something terrible was due to occur and then actually nothing occurred. We can all use models to say this will happen or that will happen, but we don't usually take ridiculous actions based on worst case scenarios. We would never leave the house if we did. Exactly the same scenario was rolled out with BSE, bird flu, swine flu...huge numbers of deaths predicted and guess what? Nothing bad happened. We basically panicked and copied Italy who had copied China. The rest of the world soon followed.

The prophecy that if we didn't lockdown we'd have had x more deaths simply cannot be proven, yet you are declaring it as undisputed fact.
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3 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

See bird flu as an example of predicting something terrible was due to occur and then actually nothing occurred. We can all use models to say this will happen or that will happen, but we don't usually take ridiculous actions based on worst case scenarios. We would never leave the house if we did.

The prophecy that if we didn't lockdown we'd have had x more deaths simply cannot be proven, yet you are declaring it as undisputed fact.

If the lockdowns had not taken place we would be in a far worse place. I fully agree with scientists on this, not the continued jumbo jumbo you keep writing 

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If the lockdowns had not taken place we would be in a far worse place. I fully agree with scientists on this, not the continued jumbo jumbo you keep writing 
You agree with some scientists. Others fundamentally disagree and they are far more qualified than you or I. Give me some proof and I might listen that lockdown was worth it.

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14 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

If the lockdowns had not taken place we would be in a far worse place. I fully agree with scientists on this, not the continued jumbo jumbo you keep writing 

If the scientists had not come up with worst case scenarios nothing would have got done, something did get done, so the worse cases did not happen.  I am not excusing all the excesses on Test and Trace etc.

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