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6 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

It is their personal choice,until it affects othe people,ie Taxi drivers, Care workers, Hospital workers etc. Would like any of the above who interact with to be vaccinated. Ok you can catch Covid after have both jabs, but by and large it will only be mild.

The vaccine does not stop you catching the virus.

The vaccine does not stop you spreading the virus.

How does it affect you directly if the people you come into contact with have been vaccinated or not?

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I have been informed that people who have been vaccinated with Astrazeneca manufactured in some eastern countries, Thailand, Japan etc, are not recognised as vaccinated in the UK and most of Europe.

2 major questions.

If the vaccine is made by the same company using the same process and ingredients why is it not recognised?

 How is it different?

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The vaccine does not stop you catching the virus.
The vaccine does not stop you spreading the virus.
How does it affect you directly if the people you come into contact with have been vaccinated or not?
It doesn't. But like most of the public he has very little understanding of anything to do with this virus.
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11 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
7 hours ago, geosname said:
The vaccine does not stop you catching the virus.
The vaccine does not stop you spreading the virus.
How does it affect you directly if the people you come into contact with have been vaccinated or not?

It doesn't. But like most of the public he has very little understanding of anything to do with this virus.

Unlike yourself, I'm guessing, an expert epidemiologist who has done his own 'research'?

Edited by WV

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I've just been reading that our individual chances of death from a respiratory virus at this moment is 0.26% on average across the population and around 3.3% for over 75s. This is broadly comparable to the rates for flu in any given year and equates to the chances we had in November 2019. Did we consider a raft of measures in 2019? This is as good as it's going to get. The Danes have declared the pandemic over and we should have done the same.

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Unlike yourself, I'm guessing, an expert epidemiologist who has done his own 'research'?
Again, it's the same tired argument. One doesn't have to be an expert to assess the views of other experts and make a judgement call.

It's a consistent line of argument that I am some sort of conspiracy nut who does his research on YouTube or Facebook. It's just lazy and trying to discredit. Please argue against the points made.
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46 minutes ago, WV said:

Unlike yourself, I'm guessing, an expert epidemiologist who has done his own 'research'?

All the information you need is on Government/NHS/CDC/FDA websites. 

Hidden in plain sight.

I'd guess you get most of your information from the media that twist and manipulate this information so that they can get more clicks/engagement/views etc?

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

I've just been reading that our individual chances of death from a respiratory virus at this moment is 0.26% on average across the population and around 3.3% for over 75s. This is broadly comparable to the rates for flu in any given year and equates to the chances we had in November 2019. Did we consider a raft of measures in 2019? This is as good as it's going to get. The Danes have declared the pandemic over and we should have done the same.

200 plus deaths yesterday, but in LV land pandemic is over. What are you on?

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6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

I've just been reading that our individual chances of death from a respiratory virus at this moment is 0.26% on average across the population and around 3.3% for over 75s. This is broadly comparable to the rates for flu in any given year and equates to the chances we had in November 2019. Did we consider a raft of measures in 2019? This is as good as it's going to get. The Danes have declared the pandemic over and we should have done the same.

Slight misquote from you there. What they actually said was "The pandemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels" No one has said "its over" and they may have it under control, we certainly don't.  When our new cases is at 150 a day then I'd be happy to say it's under control, unfortunately it's 30000+ cases a day. Slightly different don't you think? 

 

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6 hours ago, valeparklife said:

All the information you need is on Government/NHS/CDC/FDA websites. 

Hidden in plain sight.

I'd guess you get most of your information from the media that twist and manipulate this information so that they can get more clicks/engagement/views etc?

I speak to Doctors including an epidemiologist through my work and of course what is reported in the media. I have to say what the doctors tell me is how young the people in hospital are now at North Staffs, covid ward has more 50 year olds than 80 year olds in now. Believe what you want though just don't force it onto people who want to try and stay safe or vaccinated. 

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Slight misquote from you there. What they actually said was "The pandemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels" No one has said "its over" and they may have it under control, we certainly don't.  When our new cases is at 150 a day then I'd be happy to say it's under control, unfortunately it's 30000+ cases a day. Slightly different don't you think? 
 
As long as we test on the scale and via the means that we currently do then we'll never get to that figure and it will never be over. We've been over the 'cases' thing over and over, it means nothing.

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I speak to Doctors including an epidemiologist through my work and of course what is reported in the media. I have to say what the doctors tell me is how young the people in hospital are now at North Staffs, covid ward has more 50 year olds than 80 year olds in now. Believe what you want though just don't force it onto people who want to try and stay safe or vaccinated. 
I'm not doubting your source, but nationally that doesn't bear out in terms of hospital admissions. It's like somebody told me the other day that 70 people were on ventilators due to Covid at Royal Stoke. I find it hard to believe that there are 70 ventilators in Royal Stoke. Chinese whispers are damaging from both sides of the argument.

I don't think anybody is trying to force anything on anybody. You either want the vaccine or you don't. It's actually the coercion that I find wrong when it is a vaccine that only protects you, it should be your decision. Most people have chosen to have the vaccine because they believe themselves to be at mortal danger from Covid if they get it. Some people choose not to have the vaccine because they believe they have very little chance of being seriously ill but are concerned about other effects. I can understand sympathy to both scenarios but neither scenario are likely to die from Covid. I'll reiterate that you have got to be seriously, seriously unlucky to die from Covid, particularly under 60. Even over that age, the chances are very slim.

It's this massive misunderstanding of individual and collective risk that people just can't get their heads around and it's simply because they have been scared half to death with unreliable data and doomsday modelling. I just don't get this massive fear of death, it's inevitable for all of us. If I die tomorrow then so be it, but I'm not prepared to live my life in fear of something that is such a minuscule risk to me. I'd much rather live in freedom and enjoy my life, however long I have left.



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35 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:


1) It's actually the coercion that I find wrong when it is a vaccine that only protects you

2) If I die tomorrow then so be it, but I'm not prepared to live my life in fear of something that is such a minuscule risk to me. I'd much rather live in freedom and enjoy my life, however long I have left.


 

1) It reduces the chance of you catching it, extends to you having less chance of passing it on therefor does protect others. It isn't rocket science.

2) Do you mean like the miniscule risk of having a vaccine?

It's funny and sad the amount of anti-vaxxers I know personally to go straight for the vaccine once they have had covid. Unfortunately some people won't learn until it's too late, but it's their choice so crack on. And theres also the higher profile anti-vaxxers who keep popping up dead on the news or weezing a video out from their hospital beds, tubed up begging people to get it because they only admit they were being a bit daft when it gets to that stage.

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35 minutes ago, glenpvfc said:

1) It reduces the chance of you catching it, extends to you having less chance of passing it on therefor does protect others. It isn't rocket science.

2) Do you mean like the miniscule risk of having a vaccine?

It's funny and sad the amount of anti-vaxxers I know personally to go straight for the vaccine once they have had covid. Unfortunately some people won't learn until it's too late, but it's their choice so crack on. And theres also the higher profile anti-vaxxers who keep popping up dead on the news or weezing a video out from their hospital beds, tubed up begging people to get it because they only admit they were being a bit daft when it gets to that stage.

And if everyone said <ovf censored> it I am not having it then where would we be? The people that wont have the vaccine are the same people who didn't do any of the work in group projects at school. I wonder what the chances of mutation would be in a population where everybody refused the vaccine. Therefore it is selfish to not have it despite LV protests daily. 

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1 hour ago, glenpvfc said:

1) It reduces the chance of you catching it, extends to you having less chance of passing it on therefor does protect others. It isn't rocket science.

I heaven seen anyone claiming it reduces the risk of you catching it.

Even catching it doesn't stop you catching it again after recovery, possibly several times.

It does reduce the risk of serious effects from the virus after/if you are infected.

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1) It reduces the chance of you catching it, extends to you having less chance of passing it on therefor does protect others. It isn't rocket science.
2) Do you mean like the miniscule risk of having a vaccine?
It's funny and sad the amount of anti-vaxxers I know personally to go straight for the vaccine once they have had covid. Unfortunately some people won't learn until it's too late, but it's their choice so crack on. And theres also the higher profile anti-vaxxers who keep popping up dead on the news or weezing a video out from their hospital beds, tubed up begging people to get it because they only admit they were being a bit daft when it gets to that stage.


1) no it doesn't. It reduces your symptoms if you do catch it
2) True, the risks are very small for a vaccine as it is from catching Covid and being seriously ill
3) I'm not an anti vaxxer. I've had 2 Pfizer jabs but I vehemently defend the right of those who don't want it
4) You only get these 'high profile ' young unvaccinated people showing regret because they're such rare stories.
5) Please go and try some better arguments before contributing
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And if everyone said it I am not having it then where would we be? The people that wont have the vaccine are the same people who didn't do any of the work in group projects at school. I wonder what the chances of mutation would be in a population where everybody refused the vaccine. Therefore it is selfish to not have it despite LV protests daily. 


I don't think the people that are refusing it are the people that actually need it. The coercion of this group is completely unnecessary.

All the people that actually might derive some benefit from it have had it. It's actually the ultimate selfish act as we are only taking it to protect ourselves.

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