Jump to content

Coronavirus


robf

Recommended Posts

Advert:


10 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
11 hours ago, WV said:
 If he had been vaccinated would he have been ok? 

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't offer full protection even to those who have had it. Whatever the ins and outs it's a very sad thing to happen to someone so young.

With no underlying health issues it seems either. All very preventable. "Best dad ever" in the article. No, even an average dad would have taken the steps to ensure he was at the very minimum alive to look after his kid but chose not to due to fb memes and YouTube research. It highlights how dangerous the spread of misinformation is, a bit like what you do LV 

Edited by WV
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With no underlying health issues it seems either. All very preventable. "Best dad ever" in the article. No, even an average dad would have taken the steps to ensure he was at the very minimum alive to look after his kid but chose not to due to fb memes and YouTube research. It highlights how dangerous the spread of misinformation is, a bit like what you do LV 
His chances of succumbing from Covid-19 were probably on a par with succumbing to flu but I bet he never considered getting a flu vaccine each year and I'm sure most people his age were exactly the same. He made the choice that he was at a tiny risk of dying from Covid-19 and so probably felt like he didn't need the vaccine, just like each time we choose to get in a car we are at a tiny risk of dying in a car accident. He was just extremely unfortunate. You have zero proof that a vaccine would have made any difference. My parents have chosen not to have the vaccine...am I at all concerned? No, because I know that their risk is so,so small that it doesn't even cross my mind. It's about personal choice. We're seeing a lot of these stories in the press recently about seemingly healthy young people succumbing to the virus, it's clear as day that it's all part of the tactics of coercion to get people to take the vaccine. If this happened to lots of young people then it wouldn't make even the local news.

What misinformation am I giving? Just because I don't agree with your view which is by what you've been told by our trustworthy government, doesn't make it dangerous. People have a choice to believe other scientists who believe we've got this massively wrong. Because the propoganda says that anyone who doesn't go with the official line is some sort of monster, you've swallowed it like a good little citizen.

Just to reiterate, I am not anti vaxx, I've had both doses but I vehemently defend the right of those who don't wish to. Vilifying them is not exactly going to encourage them.



  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, WV said:

With no underlying health issues it seems either. All very preventable. "Best dad ever" in the article. No, even an average dad would have taken the steps to ensure he was at the very minimum alive to look after his kid but chose not to due to fb memes and YouTube research. It highlights how dangerous the spread of misinformation is, a bit like what you do LV 

Was the woman who worked for the BBC a less than average MUM because the vaccine  she took caused a blood clot in her brain and killed her?

What are the "accurate" statistics? 

How many people have been killed by the virus? Not how many died with the virus.

How many people died after having the vaccine? Not just killed by the virus.

It would be beneficial if everyone had access to accurate statistics, not just the statistics that show what someone is telling you is true.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


Was the woman who worked for the BBC a less than average MUM because the vaccine  she took caused a blood clot in her brain and killed her?
What are the "accurate" statistics? 
How many people have been killed by the virus? Not how many died with the virus.
How many people died after having the vaccine? Not just killed by the virus.
It would be beneficial if everyone had access to accurate statistics, not just the statistics that show what someone is telling you is true.
They haven't bothered working out how many people died as a direct cause of the virus. They didn't do any autopsies for ages and many old people with pneumonia (something that a lot of old people die from)like symptoms who happened to test positive for Covid were put down as such. There were hardly any deaths for flu but it is still around and will have undoubtedly been rebranded as Covid-19. As Alan Partridge said 'It's been rebadged you fool!'.

To me that's a fundamental statistic which could blow this whole thing out of the water- why would they not want to know this crucial piece of information?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:


To me that's a fundamental statistic which could blow this whole thing out of the water- why would they not want to know this crucial piece of information?

If you don't maintain the fear you can't maintain control. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vale lunatic fringe well and truly alive on this thread 

 

Geo, how many people die 'of' cancer or with cancer and the complications it brings? 

On this thread LV and yourself have talked about flu deaths numbers. How many people die of flu rather than with it ? 

Absolutely must be answered if you demand the same of covid. Will blow cancer stats and flu out of the window. 

Edited by WV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vale lunatic fringe well and truly alive on this thread 
Please explain. Again, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it crazy or lunacy. You've been primed to look at this from only one angle, it's the government angle. I'm still convinced, more than ever, that the majority of the western world has panicked, over reacted to terrible innacuracies in modeling and testing, misinterpreting data along the way and is now burying its head in the sand to alternative ways of managing this because they have ruined their economies, ruined millions of lives and spent an obscene amount of money. I wonder if they'll ever get asked the question ' was it worth it?'

Why does a deadly virus need and vaccine for said deadly virus need a 300 million pound marketing campaign? If this was so bad there would be people dead in the streets. 99.7% survival rate remember?

There's an often quoted phrase from a Jewish woman who was caught up in nazi Germany. She was asked why the Jews went along with the terrible persecution of Jews and her answer (to paraphrase) was that it didn't all happen at once and they thought it would get better, first it was closing their business, then segregating them, then forcing them to wear a yellow star, then placing them in ghettos and you know the rest. Any German who questioned this persecution was considered mad, a traitor, loony. I'm not comparing this with the holocaust but the government propoganda has worked too well. People genuinely believe they are under threat and will vilify anyone who believes this is the wrong course of action. 3 weeks to flatten the curve, it's just closing schools, it's just closing shops, it's just to save Easter, it's just to save Christmas, it's only a mask, it's only a passport....

I'm utterly mystified at the lack of questioning, the lack of real analysis of the models, the data, who is in hospital and why, the lack of any resistance from supposedly intelligent people, the groupthink and echo chambers among world governments 'they've done that so we better had'. It's utterly shameful and I truly believe we'll look back at the reaction to this virus with shame.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, WV said:

Vale lunatic fringe well and truly alive on this thread 

 

Geo, how many people die 'of' cancer or with cancer and the complications it brings? 

On this thread LV and yourself have talked about flu deaths numbers. How many people die of flu rather than with it ? 

Absolutely must be answered if you demand the same of covid. Will blow cancer stats and flu out of the window. 

I think we are discussing different definitions. If covid played a part in the cause of death it's a contributing factor to the death,  as with flue and cancer deaths....... a contributing factor plays an active role in the actual death which is part of the cause.

Do we count the number of people who die within 3 months of an eye test...... or a driving test?

When first initiated if someone had a positive covid test within 28 days prior to death they were included in the number of deaths, whether it was a contributing factor (part of the cause) or not.

If someone dies within 28 days of consuming alcohol is it counted as an alcohol related death?

If covid played an active part in the death, either directly or as a real contributing factor it should be recorded as a covid death..... if it didn't it shouldn't. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


Vale lunatic fringe well and truly alive on this thread 
 
Geo, how many people die 'of' cancer or with cancer and the complications it brings? 
On this thread LV and yourself have talked about flu deaths numbers. How many people die of flu rather than with it ? 
Absolutely must be answered if you demand the same of covid. Will blow cancer stats and flu out of the window. 
The difficulty with defining how much Covid played a part in the death is not always straightforward. Generally Covid affects those who are into their 80s with several comorbidities or those who have many life threatening conditions. The question that I feel has been avoided is 'would this person have died anyway within a short time frame?'
Cancer affects any age, so it's a bit easier to define, particularly in younger people, whether cancer contributed directly to their death. It becomes less clear as people get older as many older people die with cancer but not necessarily of it. That's why I'm amazed this hasn't been investigated in more detail, with a much more rigorous analysis from doctors. You can't truly gauge how bad a virus is if you are not certain how many people actually died as a direct result of it. Many people have had it on their death certificate as a contributing factor but that's a bit ambiguous particularly given the demographic. Strenuous work in the garden can lead to death in old people but you wouldn't put it down as a contributing factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, geosname said:

I think we are discussing different definitions. If covid played a part in the cause of death it's a contributing factor to the death,  as with flue and cancer deaths....... a contributing factor plays an active role in the actual death which is part of the cause.

Do we count the number of people who die within 3 months of an eye test...... or a driving test?

When first initiated if someone had a positive covid test within 28 days prior to death they were included in the number of deaths, whether it was a contributing factor (part of the cause) or not.

If someone dies within 28 days of consuming alcohol is it counted as an alcohol related death?

If covid played an active part in the death, either directly or as a real contributing factor it should be recorded as a covid death..... if it didn't it shouldn't. 

Covid is a bit different to alcohol why are you comparing the two? 

 

I agree with your last paragraph. I dont understand your argument. I think the number of deaths that you would class as not to do with covid is marginal. Few thousand perhaps out of nearly 140000. Why are you hanging your hat on that argument? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Covid is a bit different to alcohol why are you comparing the two? 
 
I agree with your last paragraph. I dont understand your argument. I think the number of deaths that you would class as not to do with covid is marginal. Few thousand perhaps out of nearly 140000. Why are you hanging your hat on that argument? 
I disagree. As a direct cause of death I think it will turn out to be significantly less. Look at the demographic of those that have died, would they have died anyway? I think it would lift the lid on whether we've been dealing with a truly deadly virus or we've just overreacted to poor data analysis and a poor take on the excess deaths argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I disagree. As a direct cause of death I think it will turn out to be significantly less. Look at the demographic of those that have died, would they have died anyway? I think it would lift the lid on whether we've been dealing with a truly deadly virus or we've just overreacted to poor data analysis and a poor take on the excess deaths argument.

By the stats it is a truly deadly virus, and it is insulting to the thousands who have died to underplay it.

if you are a responsible person you would have had the vaccine to protect you, your loved ones and all around you. It would be very helpful if owners of all Taxi companies ensure that their drivers are vaccinated 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I disagree. As a direct cause of death I think it will turn out to be significantly less. Look at the demographic of those that have died, would they have died anyway? I think it would lift the lid on whether we've been dealing with a truly deadly virus or we've just overreacted to poor data analysis and a poor take on the excess deaths argument.

"They would have died anyway"   Do you use that arguement for the cancer patients that are waiting for treatment? Or the suicides during lock down? They were depressed so would have killed themselves anyway.? The guy from Leek, would he have died anyway? 

How many thousands of people died under the age of the average life expectancy? 

 

The disrespect you continually show is abysmal, you should be ashamed of yourself. 

Edited by WV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advert:


By the stats it is a truly deadly virus, and it is insulting to the thousands who have died to underplay it.
if you are a responsible person you would have had the vaccine to protect you, your loved ones and all around you. It would be very helpful if owners of all Taxi companies ensure that their drivers are vaccinated 
It's not though. 130,000 people die in an average 3 months in the UK and I won't continue to go down the route that nowhere near that many actually died of the virus.

Putting that aside, how does taking the vaccine protect anyone but yourself? You can still catch it, you can still spread it. The taxi driver thing is just bizarre. If you are fully vaccinated, how does the taxi driver being vaccinated make you more 'safe '?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



"They would have died anyway"   Do you use that arguement for the cancer patients that are waiting for treatment? Or the suicides during lock down? They were depressed so would have killed themselves anyway.? The guy from Leek, would he have died anyway? 
How many thousands of people died under the age of the average life expectancy? 
 
The disrespect you continually show is abysmal, you should be ashamed of yourself. 


I totally agree, many people have died unnecessarily during this period and will continue to do so for many months and years to come, just not of Covid but because of the stupid overreaction to it at the expense of everything else. Thanks for making my argument for me.

I feel incredibly sorry for the families of people that have died, but I also feel incredibly sorry for those families that have suffered bereavement because of the restrictions and not because of the virus. What is shameful is the actions of governments in ruining people's lives, ruining kids education, preventing treatable cancer diagnosis, preventing suicides that otherwise wouldn't have happened, ruining people's businesses, causing an increase in domestic violence, child abuse and poverty. All in the name of staying 'safe ' from a virus with a 99%+ survival rate. That's shameful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WV said:

Covid is a bit different to alcohol why are you comparing the two? 

 

I agree with your last paragraph. I dont understand your argument. I think the number of deaths that you would class as not to do with covid is marginal. Few thousand perhaps out of nearly 140000. Why are you hanging your hat on that argument? 

Covid is no different to alcohol if it hasn't contributed to the death, it's an incidental.

My comments are based around the need for accurate statistics to enable people to make an accurate assessment of the risk factors involved as it applies to themselves and to create an accurate picture for everyone.

Im not a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer. From what I understand the vaccine does not stop you catching covid or spreading it to others and it does not stop you catching it more than once. Which in itself suggests it does not control the spread or number of cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    Admin don't read everything. Don't assume we'll spot rule breaking. Please report posts and we'll act on ASAP. If you're logged in use the orange report post button. If you're not logged in, please use the contact form

    If you can't get on with another user you can "ignore" them. Follow the link, type in their username and save - Click here

    Check with admin if you wish to sell/auction any items. We're happy to support good causes but check first - Contact us here

  • Friends of OVF




×
×
  • Create New...