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19 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

What happened to the 1200 experts who wrote a letter to the Lancet imploring the government not to open up on July 19th? They've gone mysteriously quiet.  Weren't the hospitals supposed to be overwhelmed by now?  Tommy Tunstall has gone very quiet since he proclaimed that the whole thing would be a disaster. 

It's amazing how these people go quiet when they are proved wrong. 3 weeks since opening and not even a murmur in the statistics.  Isn't that unexpected? 

We are not out of the woods yet, I myself do have concerns re figures, the ONS also share those concerns, but still it looks better, but with 30k cases daily and around 100 deaths daily, there should be no euphoria 

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21 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Good to see it was about 70/30 in favour of no masks in Hanley earlier. The only places where it was slightly higher was in what I would call the middle class shops like M and S, which isn't a surprise as this seems to be the demographic with highest virtue signalling tendencies as they've cowered at home living a comfortable life whilst everyone else goes out to work for them. Give it a couple of months and it'll be more like 90/10.

Another ridiculous generalisation.

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Another ridiculous generalisation.

Sadly it often seems to be the case.  People are happy to say 'oh isn't this awful ' whilst sitting at home, with a nice back garden, ocado on tap, Netflix on the TV but they couldn't give a stuff about people who actually go out to work and who might not have a comfortable home life. 

I've had a pretty comfortable lockdown, I've got a steady income, a decent garden but it doesn't stop me from opening my mind to the fact that maybe, just maybe this isn't so great for many people.

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https://bocanewsnow.com/2021/08/07/florida-50-children-admitted-to-hospitals-for-covid-on-friday/

 

But i was told children couldn't catch covid or be ill with it. Must be that mainstream media peddling lies (oh and the hospital doctors and nurses are in on it) 

I wonder what the mask guidelines are in Florida? 

Edited by WV

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On 05/08/2021 at 15:26, leedsvaliant said:

Keeping people apart will stop a virus from spreading but only if people are hermetically sealed in their homes, which is obviously not possible.  This halfway house has very little impact on spread as people have still got to work, shop, attend medical appointments, emergency services etc. What it does do is provide the potential for many more deaths directly from the effects of lockdown (in spite of what people might try and claim there has still been no cost benefit analysis) and the other much more grave effects that will go on for years and years.  We used a sledgehammer to crack a nut and now the nut is shattered into millions of pieces.  A well managed strategy would have been far more preferable and would ultimately have led to less deaths in the long run. We can only judge by other countries that did sensible strategies, like Sweden, who have never fully locked down or closed their economy.  One only has to look at the current madness in Australia currently. They have sealed themselves off from the world with the aim of zero Covid and are now in a viscous cycle of continual lockdowns.  Even when they have enough people vaccinated they will still open themselves up to lots of trouble as there is very little immunity amongst the population.  They're trapped and yet people wanted us to do the same. 

Keeping people apart does slow the spread of the virus, it's common sense and no controlled study will ever be done to try and prove it as it would not be ethical. One could cite the absolute lockdown in Wuhan which is supposed to have reduced cases to a minimum in that city if one believes anything the Chinese say/claim but such a severe lockdown would never be tolerated in the Western world.

Again LV, if you rubbish the data on Covid cases/deaths it's folly to use the same data to make your point about Sweden or and other countries.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/yes-lockdowns-do-help-slow-the-spread-of-covid-19#The-virus-thrives-on-proximity

On 05/08/2021 at 15:26, leedsvaliant said:

In terms of masks, the studies you have provided suddenly popped up when the government needed them.  Before that the advice was adamant that they were useless from the WHO to Public Health England.  They are also theoretical models or very small scale studies that have no data significance.  The only large scale real life study conducted in Denmark found no benefits. 

The studies reviewed in the JAMA article showing the effectiveness of mask in wearing reducing the effectiveness of infection are not " Theoretical models or very small scale studies that have no data significance" but real studies and some (Seven) based on large numbers of people, look at the table.

JAMA is the Journal of the American Medical Association , is peer reviewed and has been published since the 1880's so is a well respected journal.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

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1 hour ago, WV said:

https://bocanewsnow.com/2021/08/07/florida-50-children-admitted-to-hospitals-for-covid-on-friday/

 

But i was told children couldn't catch covid or be ill with it. Must be that mainstream media peddling lies (oh and the hospital doctors and nurses are in on it) 

I wonder what the mask guidelines are in Florida? 

Look at the figures of children who have died throughout, look at the population of America, look at the source and then come back with something sensible. 

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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

Keeping people apart does slow the spread of the virus, it's common sense and no controlled study will ever be done to try and prove it as it would not be ethical. One could cite the absolute lockdown in Wuhan which is supposed to have reduced cases to a minimum in that city if one believes anything the Chinese say/claim but such a severe lockdown would never be tolerated in the Western world.

Again LV, if you rubbish the data on Covid cases/deaths it's folly to use the same data to make your point about Sweden or and other countries.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/yes-lockdowns-do-help-slow-the-spread-of-covid-19#The-virus-thrives-on-proximity

The studies reviewed in the JAMA article showing the effectiveness of mask in wearing reducing the effectiveness of infection are not " Theoretical models or very small scale studies that have no data significance" but real studies and some (Seven) based on large numbers of people, look at the table.

JAMA is the Journal of the American Medical Association , is peer reviewed and has been published since the 1880's so is a well respected journal.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

I don't deny that if you hermetically seal people apart from each other then they won't spread viruses but it's an impossibility.  The tactic we have used still spreads the virus but causes problems which far outweigh the effects of a virus. 

The mask studies you cite are correlation not causation.  They are not properly defined as a study of the effectiveness of masks and there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that a fall in transmission was anything to do with mask wearing.  

I only use Sweden as an example of a similar lifestyle to the UK whereby they have undertaken sensible mitigation against the virus and are now virtually death free having not closed their society completely.  

I don't understand the argument that I cannot use examples that support my point but you are free to cherry pick examples which suit yours. 

Edited by leedsvaliant

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13 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Look at the figures of children who have died throughout, look at the population of America, look at the source and then come back with something sensible. 

You dont seem too fussed about what long term effects these children may be left with just as long as they don't die thats ok. 

There are plenty of sources with the same news just Google it. 

 

Edit: ill help you out

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253250073.html

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/08/1025845668/a-florida-hospital-is-seeing-a-rise-in-covid-19-cases-in-children?t=1628458539718

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-pediatric-cases-deaths-children-20210805-lrwgqw7wpbcsrosrsxqzpnutwe-story.html

 

So you don't believe these sources or the doctors or official statistics? I wonder why that is? I thought you werent a conspiracy nut you said? 

Florida have had 2.7m cases (some people more than once of course) and 40000 deaths (none of the within 28 day stuff you dont like either) so nowhere near the 99.9% survival rate you like to state. 

All in a state that didn't make masks mandatory. Coincidence? 

2nd in the list is Texas. Wonder what their mask rules are? Same as florida...i can see a pattern emerging  

Edited by WV

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9 minutes ago, WV said:

You dont seem too fussed about what long term effects these children may be left with just as long as they don't die thats ok. 

There are plenty of sources with the same news just Google it. 

 

Edit: ill help you out

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253250073.html

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/08/1025845668/a-florida-hospital-is-seeing-a-rise-in-covid-19-cases-in-children?t=1628458539718

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-pediatric-cases-deaths-children-20210805-lrwgqw7wpbcsrosrsxqzpnutwe-story.html

 

So you don't believe these sources or the doctors or official statistics? I wonder why that is? I thought you werent a conspiracy nut you said? 

Long Covid again yawn?  There's absolutely no proof that children will be sick long term and there is very little in those articles regarding the severity of illness or again any context.  This could be caused by all sorts of things.  Kids catching respiratory viruses and testing positive for Coronavirus because they haven't been around others.  People taking kids to hospital unnecessarily.  Interestingly one doctor does mention that any kids that are there are overweight or with a significant BMI. 

Look at the statistics again.  I think there's less than 20 children have died supposedly from Covid in the UK and very few go to hospital.  Those stats don't lie whatever these small anomalies try to suggest otherwise. 

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13 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Long Covid again yawn?  There's absolutely no proof that children will be sick long term and there is very little in those articles regarding the severity of illness or again any context.  This could be caused by all sorts of things.  Kids catching respiratory viruses and testing positive for Coronavirus because they haven't been around others.  People taking kids to hospital unnecessarily.  Interestingly one doctor does mention that any kids that are there are overweight or with a significant BMI. 

Look at the statistics again.  I think there's less than 20 children have died supposedly from Covid in the UK and very few go to hospital.  Those stats don't lie whatever these small anomalies try to suggest otherwise. 

Why don't you actually read the links i gave you. You clearly didn't because there is clear context as to more kids under the age of 12 needing oxygen. They wouldn't be giving oxygen if they weren't ill. You have been wrong all the way through this and now you'll ignore anything that doesn't agree with what your YouTube research told you. How scientific of you!

 

Edited by WV

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7 hours ago, WV said:

Why don't you actually read the links i gave you. You clearly didn't because there is clear context as to more kids under the age of 12 needing oxygen. They wouldn't be giving oxygen if they weren't ill. You have been wrong all the way through this and now you'll ignore anything that doesn't agree with what your YouTube research told you. How scientific of you!

 

You're taking a tiny snapshot of one state in America that isn't happening anywhere else in the world to support your scaremongering argument.  If kids start getting ill in their thousands then come back to me.  This incident could be as simple as a respiratory virus going round because kids haven't been together and then testing positive for Covid. It's happening in the papers at the moment where they are sharing stories of supposedly fit and healthy people dying because they weren't vaccinated.  Classic propoganda tactics with zero context.  Healthy people die of the flu.

Once again you're deriding the sceptic argument by saying I get all my information off YouTube.  It's a classic tactic to make me out to be some sort of conspiracy nut. 

PS. How do you know I've been wrong all along?  I'll love it when you're eventually proved wrong. 

Edited by leedsvaliant
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16 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

You're taking a tiny snapshot of one state in America that isn't happening anywhere else in the world to support your scaremongering argument.  If kids start getting ill in their thousands then come back to me.  This incident could be as simple as a respiratory virus going round because kids haven't been together and then testing positive for Covid. It's happening in the papers at the moment where they are sharing stories of supposedly fit and healthy people dying because they weren't vaccinated.  Classic propoganda tactics with zero context.  Healthy people die of the flu.

Once again you're deriding the sceptic argument by saying I get all my information off YouTube.  It's a classic tactic to make me out to be some sort of conspiracy nut. 

PS. How do you know I've been wrong all along?  I'll love it when you're eventually proved wrong. 

The few healthy people who die of flu every year don't have the option of being vaccinated free of charge pretty much on their doorstep.

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On 08/08/2021 at 16:04, leedsvaliant said:

Completely agree, personal choice which should have been the case all along. 

No it shouldn’t have been the case all along. It should be now, now that we have the vaccine. But it made every sense to try and reduce the impact where possible. 

 

On 08/08/2021 at 20:41, leedsvaliant said:

Sadly it often seems to be the case.  People are happy to say 'oh isn't this awful ' whilst sitting at home, with a nice back garden, ocado on tap, Netflix on the TV but they couldn't give a stuff about people who actually go out to work and who might not have a comfortable home life. 

I've had a pretty comfortable lockdown, I've got a steady income, a decent garden but it doesn't stop me from opening my mind to the fact that maybe, just maybe this isn't so great for many people.

I’m similar to yourself and have been able to work from home throughout. My wife is a teacher so has had to work at home & at school with increased hours and workloads for months. I understand it’s hard for those who are essentially stuck inside but surely it’s better than dying from the virus? Which was a real possibility when hospitals were overcrowded ect. 

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